Teenagers: Dating vs. Hooking Up

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FiftyOneMPG @ Jul 19 2007, 12:48 PM) [snapback]481694[/snapback]</div>

You have to be old enough to *spell* it, before you can *get* it.

There's nothing wrong with abstinence education, except for when it's intertwined with Christian dogma.

When that happens, suddenly it's no longer about health and being prudent; it's about adhering to the rules of a belief system that may or may not be one's own.

 

I never said those things don't happen. It's terrible that they do.
I said they have ALWAYS happened. It just wasn't glorified/capitilzed upon.

What is new is the excessive coverage of them and the resulting increase in fear it creates.
We should be just as worried about it as our parents were with us (not more so).

Keeping their time occupied IS the best deterrent. Good plan. An idle mind is the devil's playground (if you believe in such a deity).

 

giving her something to do with her time will definitely help. when i was in school, yes, there were people in middle school who were having sex. they were the minority, but it happened. by the end of high school i think most of my class had experienced some kind of sex act. the discussion is there among students in schools, there's no avoiding what your kids are exposed to unless you don't involve them in the real world.

the difference i see looking back is that the parents of the youngest sexually active kids really didn't keep tabs on them or spend too much time worrying about them like you do about your family. i think the fact that you care, combined with your thinking ahead about this, will do you good.

again, from my point of view to date (that is, my own experience as a teenager), it's all about the relationship you have with your kids. to this day none of the people i call parents know me all that well. when your kids don't feel like they can trust you, talk to you, or go to you with real questions for a straight answer, they go elsewhere. and when that happens? the gap between you and them grows huge. just keep the communication lines open and maintain that level of trust they have in you. if i could go back and change anything, i wouldn't change much. but one parent i knew i could really rely on would have been nice.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 19 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]481761[/snapback]</div>

You hit the nail on the head, galaxee.

The main factor is your relationship with your daughter. As galaxee said, if she doesn't feel safe talking to you about sensitive things, she might look elsewhere. And by safe, I mean she has to be able to tell you anything without being judged or yelled at. That doesn't mean she doesn't get disciplined if she does something wrong. Just that she's not going to get blasted for admitting a mistake.

I had a similar experience to galaxee. Neither I nor my sister could talk to our parents. They either chose not to hear what we were saying or punished us for saying it. My sister went down a really bad road. I didn't, but only because: I had activities that mattered to me, I found good mentors outside of my family, and I learned from my sister's mistakes.

Activities are good, but it's even more important that you & your daughter can really talk.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Jul 18 2007, 03:24 PM) [snapback]481113[/snapback]</div>

This is the best response so far. I completely agree. Most avoidable parenting problems occur because parenting was not done at an earlier age. Note that I say "avoidable", since it's possible for even good parents to get blind-sided by circumstances.

Having raised a boy and a girl who are now a man and a woman in their twenties, I can only agree with the other posters. You aren't going to stop sex, nor do I think you want to. Hopefully you have transfered some of your values, and given your children a working knowledge of sex, STDs, love, and heartbreak, then you get out of the way and stand by to offer assistance when needed. Best of luck to all parents.

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jul 19 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]481740[/snapback]</div>

To some degree, I'd humbly suggest that this girl and her purported pregnancy --and, especially the way she was vilified-- happened, in part, because of the Christian dogma which is asserted to be truth. Specifically, as it relates to premarital sex.

I'm not saying what she did is right, but it's not worth killing oneself over, either.

Do you think she would have tried to end her life if she wasn't so shamed? Why do you think she was shamed in the first place? Who conditioned such a response? Where do you think that emotion came from?

From folks who attach unnecessary symbolism to the sexual act, that's where.

Here's the bottom line: just the *accusation of pregnancy* was enough to cause this girl's parents to pull her out of school, and to cause her to attempt suicide.

Where do you think the penchant to judge came from?

Where do you think the 'it's so terrible to even be accused of being pregnant, that I must now kill myself' impulse came from? I'll tell you this much, it wasn't from us tree hugging liberals. It was from her peers and their parents, and our society...which offers condemnation so easily, and understanding only begrudgingly.

For every liberal transgression, there is an equally heinous conservative one. Your need to judge, to determine 'good and evil' is a knife which cuts both ways; sometimes what's needed most of all isunderstanding and sympathy...not judgment and alienation.

Let me guess, her parents are praying for her constantly...

Wondering, too, if the folks didn't pull her out of school more for *their* sake, than hers...to be the *parents* of such a child...ghastly!!

----

I, too agree that it's the relationship with your children, and communication, that are most important. But I don't see how the addition of dogma and guilt, to an already complex mixture of emotions, is of any assistance.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jul 20 2007, 07:19 AM) [snapback]481740[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol:

In my experience, the horsey set have some of the more dubious sexual mores of any group on the planet...
(& I've got horses, daughters, & a wife :blink: )
Good luck with that

 

"To some degree, I'd humbly suggest that this girl and her purported pregnancy --and, especially the way she was vilified-- happened, in part, because of the Christian dogma which is asserted to be truth. Specifically, as it relates to premarital sex."

I don't think i'd go that way with the anlysis. Guilt complexes (wether church related or not), typically do NOT result in suicide attempts.

I would bet she had depression (and specifically anorexia) issues before any sex even took place. I would theorize that the parent (I will go out on a limb here and say no father present) never instilled any self esteem in the child (or time/love for that matter). They were probably never aware of ANYTHING regarding her social life and depression until the "pregnancy" word came home from school. Parent finally asks what's up to the child, who responds "uh...like, I did it just the ONE time".

Pulling her out of the situation that was seemingly so unbearable (schoolyard reputation) then triggers a suicide attempt? The depression problem was never addresses and the stigma of the parent removing her from the school even added to it, rather than helps it. Mother is probably struggling to make ends meet, working lots, semi-depressed herself, possibly with alcohol/drug problems. And now where is the girl after pulling her out of school? Either alone at home or very uncomfortably in a new school setting.
I'd be curious how "serious" the suicide attempt was. They range from mild attention seeking type to the nothing will stop me type.

There has never been a shortage of human tragedy for people to observe/discuss/mourn/ etc. and there never will be.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Jul 19 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]481829[/snapback]</div>

Your entire post was great. But I'd rephrase "mild attention seeking" to "cry for help".

 

:blink: :huh:

Or the fact that teens are having sex on the school buses or while at school....

Its just so disheartening to hear stories like these.... You didnt hear of stuff like this in the 80's

I would say it pays off to teach your kids early, like before 4th grade.... :mellow:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Jul 20 2007, 09:26 AM) [snapback]482259[/snapback]</div>

I always thought of the "Home Schooling" crowd as a bunch of nuts who's views were too extreme to be accepted and taught by the mainstream system, and who's kids were doomed to lack social skills. I have recently begun to wonder....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jul 19 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]481740[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: HAHAHAHA!

ahem.....dont be so naive.

 

I wish there was something which crossed ethnic, religious, and monetary borders, which could unite us all.

Other than a World War.

I'm convinced it's as simple as popularizing 'no' instead of 'yes.'

I know, I'm way too idealistic and naive, but I'd like to think it's true.

-----

And, yes, I admit it...I can hate and judge as well as the most devout Christian, or anybody else for that matter. Not proud of it, but I'm only human, after all.

 

I'm a high school teacher, have been for 13 years, so I feel like I'm a bit in touch with what kids are doing. Perhaps it's different in my district - we are an inner city school district, so what I have experienced may or may not be what you'd see in your own area.

Our school has seen fewer teen pregnancies in the past couple of years. But I have to say that I think a majority of teens ARE sexually active. Religion may or may not have anything to do with it - the vast majority of students at my school are Catholic, and yet many of them are still active.

What I've noticed is that the kids who are INVOLVED in something - ANYTHING!!! - are less likely to get into trouble. Drinking, drugs, smoking, gangs, etc. - if they are busy doing something else, if they have the support structure somewhere else, they will not rely on the bad stuff to make them feel better about themselves.

Band kids, drama kids, chess club, football team, academic decathlon, NHS - doesn't matter what. If they are involved with something so that they feel that what they do matters and that there are others around who support them and care about them, they are not going to be looking for trouble.

Of course, that's not the only way to avoid trouble. Kids who have good relationships with their parents - and where the parents are actually parenting, not just being buddies with their kids - are also less likely to get into trouble. It's just a bit easier to get away with saying "I can't...I have to get to band practice" than it is to say "I don't want to...I don't want to disappoint my parents."

I do know that there are kids getting into trouble and kids are certainly having sex. But 06/07 was the first year I haven't had a single pregnant student in any of my classes. My colleague made up for my share, though - he had 3 girls in his class miss a month of school when they had their babies.

 

A tangential question: why is prison culture so hot?

I mean, those sagging-at-the-waist pants guys wear nowadays are symbolic of how men are dressed in prison, aren't they? Prisoners aren't allowed belts, and so their pants are always falling down...

Now, it's become fashionable.

Go figure. It's cool to look like a convicted criminal.

Next: zebra striped overalls!!

Sorry; won't happen...Americans are getting fat, and those contrasy horizontal stripes aren't the least bit thinning...
[laughing]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jul 20 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]482552[/snapback]</div>

Which brings me to the word 'pimp'. When I was a wee lad, 'pimp' was used to describe a person who would beat women (prostitutes), who did not give him a cut of their wages. He would also beat those who threatened his women.