Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

1. there was no hostility intended, have already stated that
2. DAS, don't apologize. we have no objections to whatever others want to do to their cars. it's not our problem. in fact if you go back and look he even says in there *after 10k* the oil starts to thicken and mentioned that probably nothing would happen.
3. does noone see (despite my having pointed this out about 3 times) that the entire argument we have here is about how the fake receipts won't get you anywhere with warranty claims because there's other physical evidence? you can do what you like to your car, but take freakin' responsibility for it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Nov 1 2006, 10:12 PM) [snapback]342413[/snapback]</div>

The way I read the FAQ, there are several formulations of Mobil 1®. Only the Extended Performance version meets the EU specifications.

 

tone is hard to convey with text. the sludging comments were not meant as a what-will-happen scenario. he was basically trying to say that receipts or not, if there's a problem with your engine, there's plenty of evidence that would point to a problem with changing the oil if it were due to extended drain intervals.

the prius is different than the highlander, for sure. just so happens that there's a sludged highlander engine in there right now with clear evidence of long lapses between oil changes... and the owner supposedly has the receipts... and the extended warranty people aren't having any of it. consider that to be the standard response.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Nov 2 2006, 05:36 PM) [snapback]342914[/snapback]</div>

Yay! Every Prius UOA added will helps u understand the thing a bit better.

Please note that to oils other than a few synthetics we really don't know about total base number after an extended oil interval. If anybody decides to stretch things with conventional oil please also get the TBN.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Nov 2 2006, 07:36 PM) [snapback]342914[/snapback]</div>

DH's job rarely involves oil changes, trust me we're not relying on people changing their oil every 5k for our daily bread.

law of our land? you do realize that i've stated (or at least feel like i've stated this) way too many times... we don't give a flip about your oil change interval but to answer your question about the fake receipts, it's not gonna work.

i'm getting quite tired of repeating this. best of luck on your 10k oil changes, you'll probably be fine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Nov 2 2006, 06:50 PM) [snapback]342865[/snapback]</div>

Yes. Some of us are reading what you wrote, not what we want to see :_>

 

Do it. I do mine every 10k-15k.

Besides the fact that I'm already out of warranty, the ICE should NOT fail so ridiculously soon. When was the last time that you heard of someone's engine (not alternator, battery, or AC) actually fail within 36,000 miles?!?!

Surely other things could go wrong but unlikely the ICE. Think about it; if your A/C stops working, they can't blame your oil changes intervals; none sense.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(silentak1 @ Nov 3 2006, 11:29 AM) [snapback]343238[/snapback]</div>

About 20 years ago. Standards and expectations are so much higher now, and warranties, too. I didn't have the 4100, but their 2.8 featured a lot of the same problems:

The cylinder heads were fitted with very small oil drainbacks that were no larger than a pencil. This spelled disaster when teamed with excessively loose valve-stem-to-guide clearance. It was common for an HT 4100 to fill the valve covers with oil after the drain backs plugged. Then the oil would get sucked past the valve guides, creating not only excessive oil consumption, but carbon in the guide. This resulted in sticking valves. Another problem were soft camshaft cores that would wear to such an extent that the valves would hardly open. Amazingly, the engine would sit and idle at 400 rpm in drive as smooth as silk with the only driver complaint being a lack of power. After disassembly and inspection of the camshaft, one would never believe that an engine could idle so nicely with round lobes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 1 2006, 10:46 PM) [snapback]342406[/snapback]</div>

I'm sad to report that Jayman quit PriusChat in disgust after the deranged anti-Canadian rantings of dbermanmd. If you can believe it, Jay actually got banned for a week after responding to dbermanmd's ugly rantings on our neighbors to the north. I guess one of the mods felt it was more important to piss off Jayman rather than offer our Canadian neighbors reprieve from the rantings of our resident lunatic. Jay, one of our more intelligent, widely traveled, level headed posters seems to be gone, perhaps for good, but The Doberman is still free to make posts on a daily basis which are often just as inflammatory, and usually his posts are completely baseless (from what little I see of his posts since I only see doberman's posts when they are copied and responded to). So, in the game of injustice, one of our more influential posters is gone while the motley fool remains. Kinda like the 2000 elections, don'tchya think? RIP Jayman, or rather 'come back to the five and dime, Jimmy Dean'.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Nov 3 2006, 02:03 PM) [snapback]343361[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the heads up. While rants (including the one this is becoming) generally only give me a headache, I sheepishly admit that I enjoyed Jayman's reply. It's too bad that we couldn't all ignore the provocation he responded to. I too miss Jayman.

 

[attachmentid=5912]Ok folks, back to oil changes. Let's assume one does not have an extended warranty and the powertrain warranty expires at 60000. If you are in that category (which I am) and think that the 5000 mi oil change interval (oci) is a waste of money and resources then extended oci is worth considering. I have switched to Mobil 1 0w20 from Mobil1 5w-30 to try to get better mpg, I have not confirmed that it has actually made any difference in mpg(it is difficult to test and I have changed to high mpg techniques since making the switch making it more difficult to know if it has helped.)
I am currently running a casual study to see how far I can extend the oci using Mobil 1 0w-20 in my 2004 Prius. I started the study with about 50K on the car (I have used full synthetics mostly Mobil 1 5w-30 for the life of the car, I switched to 0w-20 at 45K.) Oil analysis will be done at 2.5K, 5K, 7K, and every 2K up to 11K, then I may go to 1K intervals. I usually put 20-22K per year on the car, I may push beyond 1 year if the oil is holding up. I am using a Mobil 1 filter which claims 15K, I will probably change the filter when insolubles go up to .6 % and will add oil as needed to replace oil removed for samples (about 4 oz each time). The car does not burn any oil (at least over 5K) and I keep the level half way between the add and full marks. On the initial oil change I added oil to about 1/3 below the full mark so the first few samples will not require adding more oil. So far I only have one result from 2379 miles and a sample analyzed from the bottle as a baseline (VOA for vigin oil analysis). I have added the 2.38K analysis to the spreadsheet and attached it. The 5K sample should be out in early Jan. VOA below from Blackstone Labs, Aug 03 sample is from older SL for comparison:

Code:

Blackstone Labs Virgin Oil Analysis        
Mobil 0w-20 SM        
Date Code X18A6 Jan. 18, 2006        
Date--    Dec-06 Aug-03
Alum--    0    2
Chrom-    0    0
Iron--    1    2
Copper    0    0
Lead--    0    0
Tin---    0    0
Moly--    93    67
Nickel    0    0
Mang--    0    0
Silver    0    0
Ti----    0    0
K-----    1    0
Boron-    74    198
Si----    3    3
Na----    4    7
Ca----    2080    2892
Mg----    13    21
P-----    770    862
Zinc--    871    979
Barium    0    0
Visc--    54    54.9
Flash-    440    470
TBN---    9.9    11

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Nov 1 2006, 09:20 PM) [snapback]342317[/snapback]</div>

I change my synthetic oil every 25,ooo miles. Just buy the right # of qts. of non-syn oil every 5,000 miles and your oil filter. Save the receipt for the oil & filter and file it away. I personally always change the oil filter every 5,000 miles.

 

Walker1, just curious what you'll do with the nearly 4 and a half gallons of new non-synthetic oil (3.5 qts x (25K/5K)) that you accumulate every 25,000 miles just for the purpose of having a collection of timely receipts to file away?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Dec 14 2006, 08:20 AM) [snapback]362172[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cbs4 @ Dec 14 2006, 01:32 PM) [snapback]362275[/snapback]</div>

Well, I have a 2 cyl. lawn tractor that takes regular motor oil. When I accumulate enouh oil I'll put it into my 2003 Honda Accord. It's MUCH cheaper to buy syn and leave it in for 25K miles. I could give the reg. oil to a person in need or a school if I had no other use for it. BTW, I have been using syn oil in my last 12 new cars the same way for about 20 years with NO engine problems. I change my own oil & filter and it's MUCH easier just changing the filter every 5,000 miles instead of both.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Dec 14 2006, 08:20 AM) [snapback]362172[/snapback]</div>

Main Entry: fraud
Pronunciation: 'frod
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English fraude, from Anglo-French, from Latin fraud-, fraus
1 a : DECEIT, TRICKERY; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right b : an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : TRICK

Merriam-Webster

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Dec 15 2006, 06:43 AM) [snapback]362677[/snapback]</div>

Hard to believe at one time car makers suggested changing the oil filter every other oil change. Must have wanted people to bugger up their motor on the early side for quick sales.

I told my dealer point-blank that I'm going to gradually extend my oil changes to 16,000km/12 months or as supported by my used oil analysis program. Currently, the 12 month/16,000km oil/filter change interval is standard for EU market Prius cars. Haven't heard any reports of Prius gas motors sludging or blowing up in the EU.

I had a lot of weight with the dealer when I presented them with a virgin oil analysis of their dealer oil. Talk about garbage, I wouldn't be comfortable going beyond 8,000km with that stuff.

I even managed to "borrow" a fiber optic machine inspection scope from work and shoved it into the oil fill to peek around the top of the cylinder head. Absolutely spotless, looks like new. If you're going to get sludge the top of the cylinder head will be the place to spot it.

I hope to "borrow" the scope next spring when I change the oil again. I want to go in through the oil drain plug and see if there is any sludge in the bottom of the oil pan. I suspect the pan will be spotless too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Dec 15 2006, 06:43 AM) [snapback]362677[/snapback]</div>

I fail to see how it's much cheaper to buy synthetic and leave it in for 25K miles, if you are also buying enough regular oil to replace the oil every 5k miles. That is, if you are changing the oil yourself, wouldn't your oil cost be the same if you replaced the oil with regular oil every 5k miles, bought synthetic oil every 25k miles, and gave the synthetic oil away to a person in need or a school. I see that the less frequent synthetic oil changes save you valuable time (a little since you are changing the filter every 5k miles). Still it seems that it would be much cheaper to buy regular oil every 5k miles and skip the synthetic oil.

On the other hand, if you get duplicate receipts when you buy the regular oil and later return it with one receipt, saving the other for (yes IsrAmeriPrius, fraudulent -_- ) maintenance records ...

 

This oil change stuff has been beet too many times. If you have an engine related failure, the manufacturer, not the dealer, has to prove that your maintenance contributed to the failure. Showing receipts and proof helps to eliminate the maintenance as the cause. If you have no receipts it's still up to them to prove that lack of maintenance is the cause. If your oil is sludged up, it's most likely lack of changing the oil or it could even be the wrong oil, like maybe a non detergent, no spec oil. Oil change intervals are guide lines. Having said all this, the easy way is to get the oil changed at the dealer. For your vehicle the best way may be to change it your self and keep receipts and a log book. You might also want to keep the old filters in baggies and keep one of the oil bottles from each oil change, with a sample. The bottle will have a date code to help the cause in case of a claim and can be sent off for analysis. A recient oil analysis might be valuable at the time of the failure. I think that changing oil yourself is good for many reasons and being careful is important when one considers the cost of replacing an engine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LongRun @ Dec 16 2006, 11:54 AM) [snapback]363116[/snapback]</div>

If you operate in winter conditions colder than -20 C, especially down to -40 C, in city driving, you could experience sludging if you run a conventional oil and push the OCI. There isn't much TBN reserve in a regular 5W-30.

Even then, the manufacturer would have to have some sort of CYA statement, like "warranty requires oil and filter change intervals of every 3 months or 5,000km if regularly operated in slow speed conditions and temperatures consistently colder than -25 C" or to that effect.

So far I haven't seen that sort of warranty CYA from any manufacturer.

The UOA I did on Mobil 1 0W-20 operated almost 12,000km in those sort of winter conditions didn't have any issues, with plenty of reserve TBN: 5.2