Featured Tesla effect?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Found in the comments: AD #2508 – Mercedes Unveils New CLA, Ghosn Denied Detention Appeal, China Sales Fall For 1st Time In 20 Years – Autoline Daily

    8. Larry D. Says:
    January 9th, 2019 at 12:58 pm
    Given the cooperation between this show and Wards, I was fully expecting to see a segment today (maybe you will show it tomorrow) I got in my daily Ward’s email links. I have since deleted the email so I don’t have the link, but in summary, it said that the average fleet MPG of light vehicles sold in the US in 2018, *** despite*** trucks and SUVs being 69% of all sales, was actually much HIGHER.

    This is yet another amazing effect of the 140,000 extra Pure EVs tesla sold in 2018 over 2017, almost all Model 3s. They not only obliterated the negative effect of the truck-heavy sales, they substantially increased the fleet MPG over last year.
    . . .

    10. Kit Gerhart Says:
    January 9th, 2019 at 1:32 pm
    8 Here’s the link to that article.

    U.S. Buyers Got Record High Fuel Economy in 2018 | Market Analysis content from WardsAuto

    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Nissan sent us our first 1st, "please buy our latest POS/no infrastructure/no liquid cooling offering" junk mail from Nissan.
    Capture+_2019-01-10-05-04-55.png
    It had a link to go online. I had to engage them just for the torment value - how they sold us a car advertised as 100 miles range that only had 80 brand new - which quickly dropped significantly, never mind the poor quality of carpet, paint & upholstery. Never mind a class action had to be formed for their false claims they refused to budge on. Never mind their $5,000 offer for a replacement battery that got jacked up to $8,000 when it was needed the most. Not that we're bitter ...

    .
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and now tesla, then chrysler. next will be gm, some people never learn :p
     
  4. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    Looks like a loose wire in the data there about September?

    Tesla number is the claimed global sales? Why can't we ever get the actual number registered in the US. It's public record it just takes some work.

    How about the Toyota effect.
    2017 Camry 24/33 mpg
    2018 Camry 28/39 mpg approx
    Quite a step up plus 1 or 2 mpg increase for many other models easily beats the average and leads the way.

    Ford, GM, and others discontinuing their fuel sucking pig sedans and introducing some hybrid versions also helps raise the fleet average too.

    Tesla is outsold by Corolla 2 to 1, Camry 2.5 to 1, and by Rav4 almost 3 to 1.

    refs
    2018 Toyota Camry Pricing - MSN Autos
    Toyota RAV4 US car sales figures
     
  5. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    But your EV is still holding its resell value even though the warranty has expired, right?
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Thanks, you reminded me to buy stocks to hold value. I just put in two buy options.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Wasn't the longer range one supposed to get liquid cooling?

    Camry sales have been dropping since 2015; a 80,000 loss compared to 2018 with under 350,000 sold. RAV4 sales are up but the more efficient model just arrived. The hybrids are just a fraction of sales. Meanwhile, Ford sold nearly a million F series trucks last year.

    Now those trucks have been improving in fuel economy. We could say that is the reason for the increase in the average. Their fuel economy is much better than the competing Toyota.

    Many of the domestic products are competitive with the Asian brands. It wasn't that lack in the full size sedans for their discontinue NG. It was lack of sales. The 30,000 or so sold a year would have little effect on the average. Tesla's 100 k plus of 100+ mpge cars will.
     
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  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I tell ya, that Volt is getting mighty tempting - now that it has a 7.2 KW onboard charger. What was it Clint Eastwood set in Dirty Harry?
    "You feel lucky punk? "
    i kinda am feelin' lucky .....

    oh yea - so hard to believe Nissan was just BS'ing
    .
     
  9. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    On a manufacturer level, Toyota may beat the average, but they definitely don't lead the way.
    Manufacturers that have a higher fleet average:

    Honda: 29.5
    Nissan: 27.9
    Kia: 27.5
    Hyundai: 28.9
    Subaru: 28.4
    Mazda: 29.3

    Average for Toyota was 26.0


    Data from https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2018-01/420r18001-app-k.xlsx
    This is cars+trucks, combined EPA efficiency numbers for 2017.
    I excluded VW due to their recent shenanigans, but if you believe their numbers, they beat Toyota as well.
     
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  10. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    None of the above has a real truck division to weigh them down. Most are small in sales compared to GM, Ford, and Toyota. Would be interesting to see the numbers with out the trucks.
     
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  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    The thing is, iirc the huge trucks don't get figured into CARB equations. Those big boys lobbied hard to make sure that didn't take place.
    .
     
  12. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    By trucks I'm thinking F150, Ranger, F250, Tundra,Tacoma, ect and their SUV equivalents. Those aren't exempt now are they? Not something you will find new at a Kia dealer.
     
  13. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    True, however, if we are talking about the Toyota effect, that includes all the vehicles Toyota builds.

    For cars:

    Toyota: 31.1

    Honda: 31.8
    Nissan: 30.4
    Kia: 29.3
    Hyundai: 29.6
    Subaru: 29.1
    Mazda: 30.4

    So if you ignore half of Toyota's business they almost lead the pack.
    For the company as a whole? Middle of the pack, certainly not a leader.
     
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  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Shocked! Who would know:
    model EV range gas MPG
    1 2014 BMW 3i REx 72 mi 39 MPG
    2 2018 GM Volt 53 mi 42 MPG
    3 2018 Prius Prime 25 mi 54 MPG

    Can you find any sort that puts the Volt first?

    I have the first and third.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #14 bwilson4web, Jan 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Here are the numbers of tesla model 3's and all cars sold in the US in 2018, with december broken out in sorting.
    December 2018 YTD U.S. Passenger Car Sales Rankings – Best-Selling Cars In America | GCBC

    The rav4 brings the total down in 2018 as it is bellow average mpg. The camry raises it a little. If we just look at camry and rav4 they average about 29 mpg for the fleet (my guestimate of mix of hybrids and v6) about 1.5 mpg above the national average that includes a lot of humongous SUVs and full size pick up trucks. Add in just the tesla model 3 (at 116 mpge its worst figures with the long range dual and performance) with those two and we jump to 33 mpg for the year, and 36 mpg for december. Remember the model 3 sold poorly in the first half of 2018 because production ramp up was slow. That isn't even counting the 51K tesla model S/X sold in the US in 2018.

    Plug-in sales including the prime grew 80% last year in the US to 361,000 units, because of mpge counting this significantly increased averge fuel economy of the new US fleet more than the shift to trucks and SUVs decreased it.

    Compare Side-by-Side



    The 2019 rav4 jumps 5 mpg, maybe even more if hybrids take a larger percentage, with the redesign. That and growing plug-in sales should help lower oil consumption in the US.
     
    #15 austingreen, Jan 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The long range Leaf doesn't have liquid cooling?
    The majority of full size trucks and SUVs sold are EPA tested.
     
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    were nissan's lips moving?
    60 kW Nissan LEAF To Debut At CES: Still Lacks Liquid Cooling
    yes - is found CARB rules changed not too long ago - but i still can't determine the demarcation for some in/some not.
    .
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The review articles I saw over the past week on the Leaf made no mention of the pack cooling.

    What I refer to as the 1500 class, which was once the half ton one, is counted for CAFE. The Ford and Ram trucks are obvious in if they are in it or not. 1500 or higher should appear somewhere on a GM truck's window sticker, but I think the higher classed classed ones get a heavy duty tag or something.

    Don't think the Asian brands sell an excluded sized truck. The Tundra and Titan come close though.

    For the full size SUVs is harder to tell. For a guess, I'd say no unibody model is excluded.
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    well, the two Teslas were unloaded because 'she' said so. The S because she decided after a few days it was too low - and hard to get into to drive. Then the model X went bye-bye because she's willing to listen to me once ... to start living like we are retired already because we will be soon, and so we should start living in a more consolidated fashion. Of course, her absolute hatred of Version 9 software that totally redid the display was the Tipping Point. Hopefully the plug-in minivan (& whatever else we decide to get) will last as long as the 100K mile gen II Prius did.
     
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  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    bob, is that bolt range correct, or did you mean volt?
     
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