Tesla fast charging station at mall

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by yoyoman, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. NonFormulaic

    NonFormulaic Member

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    I agree with you, Lee Jay. We're rightfully obsessed with safety. There's an edge to driving a BEV in such conditions. Road blocks occur often....unfortunately trucks overturn in high wind conditions, especially when combined with slick surfaces. On my "what if" list is a low range circumstance in such adverse, sub temp conditions. This is serious stuff. Life and death stuff.
     
  2. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Funny you should mention high winds. I work in wind energy research and at a place with extreme winds for testing. I've had a side window in my car blown out in the parking lot from high winds. We've had winds of 140mph despite being a thousand miles away from the nearest hurricane. A road near where I work is often closed to tall vehicles because it runs perpendicular to the primary wind direction. Tons of trucks turn over there every year. It's so common they installed permanent gates that can be closed by remote despite it being a major highway connecting two cities (Golden and Boulder Colorado).
     
  3. EV-ish

    EV-ish Active Member

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    His posts are silly. As if an ICE car cannot get stuck in bad weather, and anybody who has the experience then swears off cars entirely and walks. And remember, he is the fellow who judges recharge times as unacceptable when over 480 seconds. <<shrug>>

    I think it is likely true that a 200 mile BEV will have more inconvenience events that a 400 mile ICE overall, on average, across the nation. Yet even I would be delighted to own and use a 200 mile Tesla for all my driving, even though I live well off the beaten path of high speed chargers. I am no doubt moe tolerant of some inconvenience than Jay, but my wife is willing to buy a Tesla and she is not motivated to own an EV.
     
  4. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Far more rarely. It's all statistics. Do you want a 1 in 100 chance of freezing to death or a 1 in 100,000 chance?

    Ever tell two little kids to sit around and wait for 45 minutes in the back of the car while it's not moving?

    I don't consider freezing to death an "inconvenience".

    If someone gave me one, and paid for insurance and repairs, I'd commute with it. But I'd never leave the city with it.

    Sitting on the side of the road with a dead battery is more than an inconvenience. Owning a car that can't leave the city is okay if you own another one and always use that one for doing so. All of my BEV-owning friends do the second one.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    And it is why hundreds of thousands more people buy trucks and SUVs with 4WD and AWD.

    Three times in a lifetime of driving is not common.
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    It's "some" times in a lifetime versus "never" in a lifetime. I believe "some" is more common than "never".
     
  7. NonFormulaic

    NonFormulaic Member

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    Love this.....bulls eye!

    "Far more rarely. It's all statistics. Do you want a 1 in 100 chance of freezing to death or a 1 in 100,000 chance?"

    Risk occurs within a spectrum. Clearly, Prime is less "inconvenient" than any BEV currently available. Factor in the escalating angst.....uh...desperation as one's range diminishes. For those who dislike the phrase "range anxiety," please come up with a better way way of describing such torture.
     
  8. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    What's wrong with "poor range" or "low range"? It's not a mental thing, it's real. A conventional car with a 300 mile range is considered horrible. I've never owned a car with less than that, and most are over 400 miles. A 200 mile range is, well, pathetic. There's a word.
     
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  9. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    So many logical fallacies.
    The odds are made up.
    How many Tesla owners have frozen to death due to being stuck in their car without power?

    Prime may be less "inconvenient" for you. It is not, objectively, less "inconvenient" for everyone.
    For me, the Prime is clearly more inconvenient.

    The vast majority of people that suffer "range anxiety" are peoiple who don't drive an EV.
     
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    As I said, they don't take them. They take conventional cars because they know their BEVS can't do the job. Would you drive your Teslave on a 200 mile round trip on a 10 degree day in the snow or would you take a different car?
     
  11. NonFormulaic

    NonFormulaic Member

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    "How many Tesla owners have frozen to death?"

    The better question is "How many Tesla drivers have had to go on Benzos?"

    How about "low range intolerance?"
     
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    If I wanted them merged, I would use multi quote. Posts with multi quote are harder to read and make the thread harder to follow. So I don't use it on purpose.
     
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  13. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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    One of the reasons I like Priuschat is that the discussions mostly produce more light than heat. Seems to me zythryns posts are tendi g towards more heat than is needed in this discussion.

    For example I don't think Lee Jay was "foolish" in posting about getting stranded in bad weather without explaining further. I think we could work out what he meant. I could anyhow.

    IMHO Zythryn says he is just speaking for himself then generalises about what he thinks will or won't affect others while criticising Lee Jay for making the same kind of inferences.

    Maybe we could cool down this discussion a bit and make it calmer and more respectful?

    I'm with Lee Jay on range issues with BEVs. I will not be buying a BEV because I don.t want to be reliant on finding a charging station that is not already in use. Finding a station is not the same as finding an available one! Waiting 20 minutes or more before one even becomes free can double the necessary stop time.

    For this reason "Charging station rage" is already in the news in the UK.


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  14. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I'd buy a BEV in a heartbeat if batteries didn't suck so bad. I'm an EE specializing in power, did my thesis on a permanent magnet direct drive machine, and have been flying all-electric model aircraft since the state of the art was NiCd batteries and cobalt brushed motors. It's not like I'm even remotely anti-Ev, but the technology has to actually do the job in a way superior to current vehicles.

    If battery specific energy were 1000Wh/kg instead of 250, cost were $30/kWh instead of $200 and cycle and calendar life were doubled so they would last 30 years, we could have practical, cost-effective 600+ mile BEVs. That combined with half megawatt Supercharger stations, at least one per 50,000 people in a city (meaning at least one in every city of that size or larger) and L2 chargers at every commercial establishment and we'd be there.

    In the absence of that, plug in hybrids are far superior since they can "recharge" in 3 minutes, have a 600 mile range today, and can "recharge" almost anywhere.
     
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  15. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    And do you know the answer to how many Tesla drivers go on to Benzos?
    I will admit, I don't either.
    But you and Lee seem to be assuming facts not in order.

    I have driven long trips many times in the winter.
    I know of many owners that have taken long trips in the winter.

    I say this, not to say everyone can do it, or is comfortable with it, I say this to simply point out that it is possible, and fairly easy to do.
    Again, Lee points are perfectly valid FOR HIM. As mine are for me, and the other Tesla owners I know personally with similar experiences.

    Also not, I am NOT saying because it is convenient and easy for me, it is easy and convenient for everyone.
    That would be making the same fallacious arguments others are making when they state their positions as universal truths.
     
  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Have you ever gotten below 100 miles available range remaining?
     
  17. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Of course.
    I've also hit detours when under 100 miles. Of course, I have never had a 90 mile long detour without a place to charge.
     
  18. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    “No person may operate a civil aircraft in IFR conditions unless it carries enough fuel (considering weather reports and forecasts and weather conditions) to-
    • Complete the flight to the first airport of intended landing;
    • (2) …Fly from that airport to the alternate airport [if one is required]; and
    • (3) Fly after that for 45 minutes at normal cruising speed or, for helicopters, fly after that for 30 minutes at normal cruising speed."


    That's an example of one of the FAA fuel-reserve requirements. The recent Brazil soccer team plane crash is what can happen if you don't follow rules like those.

    My rule is, I never get below 100 miles of reserve range without refueling unless something has gone wrong. In bad weather conditions, I increase that to 150 miles.

    If a Model S can go 300 miles in ideal conditions it can maybe manage 200 miles in cold conditions. That gives it a round-trip range in cold conditions of 25 miles for me - 25 out, 25 in, 150 reserve. Destination charging could increase that to 50 miles, but few places have it. A Prime will have a range of more like 175 miles - 175 out, 175 in, 150 reserve for a 500 mile range in lousy conditions. Almost everywhere has destination refueling increasing the range to basically infinity.
     
  19. NonFormulaic

    NonFormulaic Member

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    Lee Jay.....Too smart!
     
    #79 NonFormulaic, Dec 12, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
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