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Featured Tesla is Going Out of Business, says former GM Vice Chairman.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by exstudent, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I'll gladly help you get him into this costume

    ¡feliz Navidad!

    [​IMG]

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    #61 hill, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  2. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Those are nice, but wouldn't you rather have the Real McCoy?

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  4. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Not sure on the legality of that... :confused:
     
  5. KokomoKid

    KokomoKid Member

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    Regarding Bob Lutz, he is probably best known as the type of "car guy" who would come up with something like the Viper. Also, though, with the Volt, he championed what is probably the best currently available powertrain format for many people, the plug-in hybrid.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #65 KokomoKid, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i doubt elon loses any sleep over his running commentary.
     
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  7. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Tesla can lose some stock value...
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Lutz rambling about battery storage ... true brilliance ;
    [QUOTE ]"... According to Lutz, if the stationary storage market were truly ready for growth, it would have been tapped by Alessandro Volta in 1800 when he invented the first battery ...." [/QUOTE]
    Former General Motors Executive Bashes Tesla's Storage Plan: 'Boy, I Don't See it' | Greentech Media

    iirc, Alessandro Volta's invention wasn't even rechargeable. That was someone else. That's what happens when Lutz speaks ... showing off a wealth of wisdom.

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    #68 hill, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
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  9. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

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    Lutz would be quoting Kung Fu Panda: "There is no secret sauce!"
     
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  10. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

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    You can get it good, fast, or cheap. Pick 2.
     
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    people on the waiting list want good and fast, i'll settle for good and cheap.:)
     
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  12. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Some more buyers for the Tesla Truck. Two big truck leasing companies on board.

    Wall Street Journal, 11/17/2017. Tesla’s Electric Semi Truck Gets Orders From Wal-Mart and J.B. Hunt - WSJ
    Tesla’s Electric Semi Truck Gets Orders From Wal-Mart and J.B. Hunt
    Ryder is in the process of an order for the truck due out in 2019

    Some of the country’s biggest trucking fleets are among Tesla Inc.’s first customers for its all-electric big rig.

    J.B. Hunt Transport Services Inc. and Wal-Mart Stores Inc., which operate thousands of trucks, said Friday they had reserved Tesla’s truck, which Chief Executive Elon Musk revealed at an event in Hawthorne, Calif., on Thursday. The first highway-ready vehicles aren’t due out until 2019, but the company is taking $5,000 deposits.

    Truck leasing and fleet management company Ryder System Inc. R 0.38% “is in the process of placing its initial order for a fleet of Tesla semi-trucks,” Dennis Cooke, the company’s president of global fleet management solutions, said in an email. Ryder declined to specify the size of the order.

    The Semi is designed to run up to 500 miles on a single charge, and incorporates Tesla’s semiautonomous driving system, which the company said could allow big rigs to travel in autonomous convoys with other of its trucks. The company did not provide a sticker price, but said the truck would be cheaper to operate than diesel rivals and could potentially cost less than transport by rail.

    Wal-Mart has preordered five units for the U.S. and 10 for its Canadian division, and sees potential for the trucks to help meet company targets for lower emissions, a spokesman said Friday. The order was reported earlier by CNBC.

    The company has one of the largest private fleets in the U.S., with some 6,000 trucks. Wal-Mart has tested other new vehicle technology, including diesel-electric hybrid trucks and some that run on liquefied natural gas or other alternative fuels.

    J.B. Hunt, a leading U.S. carrier, said Friday it “placed a reservation to purchase multiple Tesla Semi tractors,” but declined to specify how many units it ordered. The vehicles will support West Coast operations of J.B. Hunt’s intermodal unit, where freight is moved long distance by road and rail, and its dedicated contract division, which provides trucking services for companies that have outsourced their private fleet operations.

    The electric vehicles will be most useful on local routes, J.B. Hunt Chief Executive John Roberts said in a statement.

    The Semi’s 500-mile range on a single charge exceeds what some analysts had expected but could still limit its use on long-haul routes, at least until a nationwide network of charging stations is built. The battery’s weight could also be an issue, as heavier trucks can carry less freight. “As presented it is hard to argue that the Tesla semi … can do anything a diesel truck can do,” Bernstein analysts said in a research note.

    Tesla says it is planning to build a global network of “megachargers” where truckers could recharge vehicles in about 30 minutes, gaining another 400 miles of range.

    Other companies are working on electric trucks, including medium-duty and delivery vehicles. Engine maker Cummins Inc., which unveiled an electric powertrain with a 100-mile range earlier this year, has said “there’s just no case today” for electric long-haul trucks, citing the battery weight. The company’s shares were down 4% Friday.

    Daimler AG, which makes U.S. market leader Freightliner big rigs, showed off an electric prototype in October. U.S. Xpress, a large fleet, said earlier this year it had ordered hydrogen-electric semi-trucks from Nikola Motor Co., to be delivered in 2020.

    In the meantime, fleets that move cargo thousands of miles across the country may be less eager to test the Semis out.

    “The limited 500-mile range of the Tesla truck hinders our ability to be an early adopter,” Greg Hirsch, a senior vice president at trucking company Daseke Inc., said in an email. The company specializes in hauling oversize industrial equipment and materials, often over long distances. “There will need to be an over-the-road infrastructure put into place prior to us being able take advantage of this technology.”​
     
  13. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    Interesting story in the WSJ today about developing high-tech lubricants to allow the design of new ultra-efficient internal combustion engines, thus postponing the doom of ICE technology.

    "Ford has said that by 2022 it would slash spending on conventional engines by a third, around $500 million, and invest instead in development electric and hybrid vehicles. That comes on top of about $4.5 billion in planned spending to develop more than a dozen new electric vehicles. GM plans to launch 20 electric vehicles world-wide over the next six years."

    "General Motors Co. on Wednesday pledged to sell one million EVs annually by 2026. Oil multinationals are spending more on renewable-energy sources and, in some cases, investing in electric vehicles’ recharging infrastructure"

    "But such activities still make up a fraction of their sales. Most companies expect the combustion engine to remain dominant for decades to come, which means improving efficiency is crucial."​

    Extending the life of a mature technology is not as sexy as being out there on the cutting edge. But mature technologies require investments only for maintenance and marginal improvements. Therefore they are usually profitable and relatively low-risk generators of revenue.

    Whether or not you believe that Tesla can survive and flourish, it's hard to dispute that Tesla has managed to give electric vehicles the "sizzle" that the industry's traditional marketing gurus couldn't or wouldn't. But maybe that wasn't their job.
     
  14. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Based on the current demands from Europe and CHINA (the 1,000,000 pound Panda in the room): ICE is terminally ill.
    But the automakers are trying to extend life unnecessarily?

    China studying when to ban gasoline and diesel cars - Autoblog
    France & the UK will be banning new gas and diesel cars from 2040 (23 years from now).
    India and Norway will also be banning gas and diesel cars too; no firm date established.

    CHINA:
    Is the world's LARGEST auto market, and GROWING.
    They also have a major smog problem, which they desperately want to clean up.
    1) Plans to implement sales goals for 1/5 of all cars to be electric or plug-in hybrids by 2025 (8 years from now).
    2) Aggressive mandatory electric or plug-in hybrid sales requirements (rules may not be enforced until 2019).
    2a) 8% by 2018.
    2b) 10% in 2019.
    2c) 12% in 2020.​

    Each of the countries could modify the dates and percentage of EV or plug-ins, but the terminal diagnosis still exists.
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The new Camry uses 0W16 oil, and some models in Japan are starting to use 0W8.

    Even if the ICE dies in personal cars, there are still plenty of uses for it. Which makes improvements still a worthwhile investment.
     
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  16. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    You are absolutely correct. The proverbial handwriting is upon the wall.

    Even so, the internal combustion engine is a mature technology -- and unless something changes dramatically, its use will decline but not disappear. No one is suggesting that the ICE will continue as transportation's dominant motive power. But that does not mean that these devices are going to be totally gone in all markets, in all countries, and for all purposes.

    The Wall Street Journal's graphic is interesting:


    In parts of the world where there is no charging infrastructure or where local environmental issues are not a major consideration, the ICE will still be around. Therefore, it makes sense to make whatever improvements one can to improve efficiency, minimize fuel consumption, and reduce emissions.

    But I digress. My intended point was that the "big players" (GM, Ford, etc.) already recognize the inevitable decline of the ICE and are committed to the alternative future. Regulatory requirements in China, Europe, and even some U.S. cities, will be one of the major factors causing this business decision. Consumer interest and increasing confidence in the technology also will play an important part.
     
  17. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

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    The marginal improvements become ever more expensive. This reality is also known as the Law of Diminishing Returns. It is just SO much cheaper to slap a few more kWh on to a car.
     
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    these lighter oils may be causing the premature death of the ice.
     
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  19. KokomoKid

    KokomoKid Member

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    Years ago, I remember hearing that a way to increase efficiency of gas engines would be to run them at much higher temperature, like 500 degrees rather than 200. This would require different coolant and lubricants, and various different materials, but would significantly increase efficiency. Is there any recent discussion of this?

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Maybe in some other thread someone is talking ice efficiency . This one.however is about Bob Lutz's crazy Factor. Or maybe it's just senility. No - he's been that way for several decades. Maybe an alien abduction/replacement?

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