Tesla leads again and again

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by orenji, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    It only lost 1/12th of it's value. To paraphrase Steve Wozniak * , "They can do that 12 more times". :)

    Dan
    * When the Woz sponsored the US festival in 1982 he lost $12,000,000. He did it again the next year, and again lost $12M. He's reported to have said that he enjoyed the concert and could afford to so it several more times. At the time, $12M was a good portion of his total worth.
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    like VW's id4 ?? ..... a nice ride .... it might have way less get-up-&-go than a tesla .... and it may have less range than tesla's comprable Y .... and (according to EPA) it may be over 25% less efficient ... but heck - if JD Power says so .... well i guess we all better scratch tesla off the next car purchase list.

    .
     
  3. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    How about Lucid Motors - 500 mile range pretty impressive - and a real head turner.
     
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    More expensive than a Tesla and with a tiny fraction of EVEN THEIR consumer car building experience.

    Yeah.
    THAT's a plan.
     
    #44 ETC(SS), Feb 23, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The top, EPA EVs are Tesla and Hyundai. Everyone else is a ‘press release.’

    Bob Wilson
     
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  6. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Hyundai is making a power move
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'll wait for the EPA results.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    It’s looks alone blows Tesla away.
     
  9. t_newt

    t_newt Active Member

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    I originally thought you didn't like Tesla because electric cars threatened the Hydrogen fueled Toyota Mirai. Now you are praising any electric car except Tesla---you just praised two EVs in three posts. You've moved from being pro-hydrogen to just being anti-Tesla. I guess that is progress. At least you are now seeing the benefits of electric vehicles.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'd noticed this a while back but since this is "PriusChat" and not "TeslaChat", I figured some static comes with the Prius-centric forum.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    You must be confused, I believe in Hydrogen and also in the future of BEV. Tesla Fans are the ones who have continued to attack all my post as I am a supporter of Hydrogen and an owner, as well as diehard Toyota loyalist. Hydrogen and BEVs will continue to grow in the US and around the world. Will Tesla continue to hold the lead they have now, no. There is too much new competition from new automotive manufacturers and legacy manufacturers. Tesla will slowly lose the lead they have at this time, due to competition and due to their poor quality.
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    We simply provide the facts and data you choose to omit. Such behavior invites adding the missing truths.

    We'll have to agree to disagree based on current, 02/24/2021, EPA results.

    We've had (and have) climate deniers and the occasional 'hit and run' Prius critics. Truth, facts and data, dispassionately shared are the best reply.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    praising any/all other ev's does ignore how any of the 'other' ev's are still hydrogwn killers.
    .
     
  14. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    That’s your opinion, not mine. Hydrogen has its own benefits. But one has to not allow their own bias to be warp their mindset. Also, most of my posts on Tesla (since threads are mostly BEV against Hydrogen and Toyota) are factually. So again one has to accept the facts and be open to the idea that Tesla is not as supreme as some makes it out to be in many ways.
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Tesla's fault is that they have a software company mentality in pushing out a product fast, which I believe partly stems from the public's general impatience, and perception of "it's just software". With OTA, that isn't much of an issue with the actual software side of the car. Faults there can be overlooked when the user isn't inconvenienced to get the fix. It is an issue with build quality of the physical side of the car.

    To be fair, new models and redesigns do have more issues in the first year, and even into the second and third year, than is typical of the brand. The difference with traditional car companies is that the very first run from the factory isn't shipped right out. They know production has a learning curve before reliability getting the product right the first time. So that first run is held to fix the first time issues, and they wait for later runs to fill customer special orders. Of course, if they rush, or something unexpected comes up, they can have problems reach the customer in greater numbers.

    Tesla, as a start up, was under greater pressure to put out new products and make profit than established companies. Competition brings a different pressure. Hopefully one that leads to them taking more time with quality assurance for the first cars of a model made.

    Pointing out the downsides and hurdles to hydrogen is not an attack.
    The large energy costs of getting hydrogen into a practical format for vehicles, and additional energy cost for that precious fast refuel, is a fact. One that is the reason why hydrogen is a poorer use of renewable electricity for a car than a plug in, and why it has a high price at the dispenser.
     
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  16. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    The page you linked to is a poor source of information. The web coding is broken. And then there's the filter options selected. First of all, You selected BEV only. That takes care of those pesky PHEVs that are as efficient or more efficient than most of the Tesla models. Second is that it does not accumulate the same data for all cars. So even though it sorts by one of 6 fields, it will show BEV first. It will not sort by the MPGe if you have more than one type of car, even though that is the measure that they recommend we use.

    And, of course, you specified that it was 2021 results when the link that you posted was set to show 2020 and 2021 cars. Was that so that you could capture that one model 3, standard range that tested 10 mpge higher than all the rest?

    The Prius prime is still showing higher MPGe than all but one Tesla model currently being sold and it's within 1% of that.

    Dan
     
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Is anyone expecting a large electric like the Model X, 3 tons - larger front end displacement - which can tow 5000 lbs & hold hold 7 people, to have lower epa's than a medium size or small size car?

    If anything is impressive, a larger car like the model Y - tons more piwer - which is still within 5 or 6% of the same efficiency as the prime - that'd be it
    .
     
    #57 hill, Feb 24, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  18. t_newt

    t_newt Active Member

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    When I got the 2017 Prius Prime, it had the first or second best MPGe EPA rating (Hyudai Ioniq may have been first). When Tesla came out with a Model 3 that was even more efficient, I was pretty much blown away that they were able to beat the Prius Prime with a car with so much more power. I'm amazed to this day. I think the other car companies are too (I seem to recall VW making a comment about this at one point).
     
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  19. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Only while running only on its battery.
     
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  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    At one time, we had both:
    • 2014 BMW i3-REx with 72 mile EV, our 10 stop car (2.9 = 72 / 25)
    • 2017 Prius Prime with 25 mile EV, our 3 stop car.
    We found the Prius Prime was not being used while the BMW i3-REx became the car of choice. At one time, the BMW engine would most frequently run after 60 days of non-use. In contrast, the Prime control laws triggered engine operation too frequently to my great consternation. Since trading in the Prius Prime for our Tesla Model 3, unexpected engine operation disappeared.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #60 bwilson4web, Feb 24, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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