Tesla leads again and again

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by orenji, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    Since I ran my Prius on only it's battery for 10 months of last year, it effectively was delivering 133MPGe full time. Then when it was time to head north through the mountains 500 miles away it exceeded 55 MPG and I did not have to detour to find a charging station. No need to sit in line waiting for an open charger either. The distance that you detour looking for a charger should be factored into the MPGe, but of course it's not.

    Damn. I just noticed that this is the "other cars-> Tesla" sub forum. Let me rephrase my response.

    It sure would be nice to have a EV that's as great as a tesla owner thinks it is.
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    stereotyped again.
    no owner of multiple tesla's has failed to share any less than yours truly
    & if i'd bought a hydrogen car - i would similarly point out the lame factors.
    up to this point - that's the most truth seen from any recent orenji post
    ;)
    .
     
  3. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I've had my Model 3 for about 2.5 years now. The car isn't perfect for sure. And there sure are a lot of (small) things I'd like improved on the car...nothing major.
    So far, the difference between this car and the 4 Toyota Prius' that I've owned is that I don't need to buy a new car to get some of the minor improvements. They come for free and I don't even need to go to a service center to get them.

    Mike
     
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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Bob's post wasn't made in a vacuum. It was a response to a post about hydrogen cars and BEVs. Because they are limited to California, Fueleconomy.gov doesn't let us compare hydrogen FCEVs directly within their main database. Your bringing up PHEVs just further shows how impractical FCEVs are. The mostefficient FCEV is the 2021 Mirai XLE at 74 mpge combined.

    There is faults in the program, but it doesn't sort all BEVs and then all PHEVs. The PHEVs are within the BEV list. Just not where their EV only efficiency would put them. There is some weighing for there hybrid operation. Perhaps the same formula that was used to get a 67mpge figure for EV plus hybrid operation on the Volt's very first window sticker.

    Even then, the Prius Prime is listed down where it is because it didn't run the complete EPA test without the engine coming one. Next to the 133mpge figure is 0.0 gal of gas/100mi with the 25kWh/100mi figure. With EPA rounding, that could be up to 0.049 gallons. It probably happened in the high speed or cold test.

    Um, the date wasn't about model years, but the day he looked at the the Fueleconomy site for that link. Current and next model year is the default for the power search function.

    When comparing efficiency between different models, we can't compare the results of different drivers over different routes. There is no controlling the variables involved. It gets worse with PHEVs because some routes will never have the engine come on.

    Standardized tests remove the variables, but ranking PHEVs is still trouble some. Using the EV efficiency alone will give a false impression to consumers whose regular route will exceed the EV range, or if they have a heavier foot to fires up the engine more on blended PHEVs. Using just the hybrid number doesn't do the use of grid electricity for the car justice.

    The EPA has attempted to balance the EV and hybrid figures of a PHEV for such ranked lists. It would be nice for them to disclose exactly how, but I don't care enough to write them.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Me either as the Tesla SuperChargers are mostly colocated with Interstates or on major highways. Since we also eat and stretch on our trips, we get 'take out' at a fast food restaurant near the SuperCharger (and use their bathrooms) and then eat in the car while charging. BTW, Tesla shares the number of available stalls at a SuperCharger stations. So far, no waiting after 23 months of Tesla ownership:
    • Huntsville AL-Richardson (i.e., Dallas) TX ~683 miles
    • Huntsville AL-Richardson TX-Coffeyville KS ~988 miles
    • Huntsville AL-Coffeyville KS ~709 miles
    • Huntsville AL-Tunica MS ~253 miles
    Bob Wilson
     
  6. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    You must really love your cars. I can't quite understand all the hoopla about getting from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds when a 683 mile trip averages only 48 MPH on a freeway. That Dallas trip (according to Tesla) will take you a MINIMUM of a touch over 14 hours in a tesla Mod 3 sr+. That's with the 5 stops required for charging. Any gas powered car would make that trip in a touch over 10.

    I imagine the I3 -rex would be a two day trip. Or would it be 3? I did not bother to do the math on that one.

    Dan
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm OK with this. However, the Tesla trips cost ~$3.50/100 miles or ~$23.90 in SuperCharger costs except for the last leg. In Richardson, we stayed at a motel with free breakfast and L2 charging. Tesla road cost was closer to ~$20.00.

    Our BMW is coded for ~2.3 gallon tank and enabling the REx at 75% SOC. We are seeing ~39 MPG on the REx which runs on either Premium or Plus. So the 683 miles would require ~17.5 gallons or ~$43.75 of gas charges (using Costco premium price.) Again, the free charging at the destination motel potentially saves ~2 gallons but operationally we simply drive on gas to the motel. Both the Model 3 and BMW i3-REx have similar, block-to-block, average highway speed, ~52 mph.

    Comparing our 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3 and 2014 BMW i3-REx:
    • Urban driving - both are very close although the Tesla is more efficient, ~4 mi/kWh vs ~3.5 mi/kWh. But Huntsville has a lot of free, L2 chargers so it is a wash between the two.
    • Highway driving - the Tesla is the hands down, more affordable by a factor of 2-3x. Fast DC charging of the BMW i3-REx is way too expensive due to the 50 kW charge rate.
      • Block-to-block speeds are nearly identical. Fast gasoline refueling of the BMW delayed by biology break requirements. The Tesla lets us overlap snacks and stretch with charging.
    We had a 2017 Prius Prime that I delivery drove 1,200 miles home. Although it only required one fuel stop, there were at least three biology breaks on the first tank and two on the second tank.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #67 bwilson4web, Feb 25, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The trip to my parents is shorter(little over 600 miles door to door) than that, and traffic has caused it to be that long. Relaxing at a charger sounds a lot nicer than stuck in a car on the road with other non-moving traffic. Whatever the issue was could clear while getting out of the car at a charger. The Ioniq 5 even has reclining front seats with foot rests. The wife's health issues left her in pain the day after even a normal 10 hour trip. Forced stretch breaks may have helped with that. To each their own.

    If I were to opt for the Model 3, it would be the LR, and that would add about an hour to the ten hour trip. Which isn't much with the variation I've seen with a gas car. Sounds like the Tesla has better seats than what I currently have too.
     
  9. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    Yes, you mentioned the frequent stops needed for the former wife with a weak bladder. I suspect that Tesla would not want to advertise itself as being tailored to the elderly with incontinence problems. :)

    I stumbled across the "Tesla, go anywhere" web page. Do you use it? I checked to see how a trip to Oregon would work with your model3. It only called for 3 charging stops in 464 miles, but two of those stops were only 55 miles apart. The third stop was a 196 mile leg that traveled over the Siskiyou mountain range and only called for a 20 minute charge at an unspecified charger in Medford. If my calculations are correct, that 20 minute charge will get you to the destination 100 miles later with an empty battery. Is it true that the idea is to start with a full battery, and charge just enough along the way to get to your destination with a very low SOC?

    The more I hear about the gyrations that Tesla drivers go through to stretch their range, the more I appreciate the PHEV concept. The last time I had to plan for gas stops was 30 years ago when I drove a 4x4 pickup with 10 MPG and a small gas tank.
     
  10. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    The LR would be the better choice. It's only 500 pounds heavier than the SR on the 2021 models. And it would let you complete that 600 mile trip with almost 50 miles of range too. Of course, you'd need to get an initial charge before starting that long 600 mile trip home.

    Which car do you drive for those long trips?

    Dan
    P.S. I would not mind an ottoman (foot rest) in my car for those days that I've taken a nap in it while the wife is shopping. NEEDING one to make me comfortable while charging just sounds somehow wrong.
     
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    an ottoman WOULD be nice ...... like when life is wasting away - for 25 minutes in the Costco gas line ....


    costcoGas.jpg

    SOOOOO much more of a hassle, compared to recharging at work or home, 95% of the time.

    .
     
    #71 hill, Feb 25, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I use www.plugshare.com because it covers all charging options from 110-120 wall outlets and up. There was one case where Interstate construction and a severe accident forced an unplanned detour. With PlugShare, I was able to map a route with L2 chargers close should the charge get too low.

    The charging curve in text:
    • ~1:30 minutes - initial charge to ~90 kW and then it ramps to the peak rate
    • ~5 minutes - peak rate, 170 kW in my Tesla
    • ~70 minutes - smooth ramp down to about 2 kW before it stops
    Yes, cross country travel in a Tesla requires understanding how the charge curve works for your car. A win is to arrive with ~10 miles remaining range. So as we get closer to the SuperCharger, we adjust speed to arrive with the optimum SOC. Tesla driving does require thinking ... which we enjoy.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    LOL. I've seen lines like that at a Costco. I can't imagine why I would sit in a line like that. I haven't sat in a line that long since the embargo of 73.

    I take that back. There was also that time in 1980 when an 8 lane freeway between Sacramento and San Francisco flooded and the CHP created a 26 mile backup by not notifying drivers that the road was closed. The closure was not even mentioned on the radio. Cars were moving slowly. After about 3 hours of traffic jam we took an offramp to find a restroom, food and gas. We got gas from a station with longer lines than that Costco. We stood in line for McDonald hamburgers but they sold out before we could order. A 7/11 provided "Food". Eventually we got back on the freeway and found that we were back in exactly the same place in line with the same car ahead and behind us. We'd been off the freeway for almost an hour.

    I've seen cars waiting at the Tejon Ranch California Tesla superstation. Just a few at a time. I guess the difference is that the superstation wait for a charger is only somewhere between a couple minutes and an hour or two. Plus your charge time. The Costco delay is easier to predict; 5 minutes per car that's ahead of you.
     
  14. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    10 years of enjoyment in electric cars.
    Never had to wait at a supercharger. Spent less time planning charging stops than our hotel stops.
    Car was ready to go as soon as we were every time with one exception in the early years of the supercharger network.
    The cross country road trips were the most enjoyable road trips I have ever had.
     
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  15. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    If you check out "a better route planner" you can enter in the desired battery SOC at the destination, and (I think) a minimum SOC at any point.

    Also, just because any given navigation/route planner "suggests" charging to any particular level doesn't mean you have to follow that suggestion.

    Mike
     
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  16. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    @dbstoo

    You have to realize that Bob, or most Tesla drivers for that matter...are 'enthusiasts'. I'd rate Bob as an 'alpha enthusiast'. They don't own the vehicle for 'appliance' vehicle driving. (y) Therefore, minor annoyances like charger location, etc...are absolutely OK.

    Just poking fun at you Bob...we love ya. (y)
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    When I drove three models of Prius, I studied how to optimize performance. Insights gained meant driving 52-58 MPG across the various models owned.

    In like fashion, the BMW i3-REx became another technology experiment which I'm sharing with my girlfriend who is driving it. As she learns the BMW i3 tricks, she is loving the car more and more.

    My Tesla Model 3 is another experiment. Even now, I'm testing non-OEM tires and wheels.

    Experiments are the price of being curious ... having curiosity and being different. <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
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  18. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I think you could have made that claim a few years ago, but now with 500K being sold in one year we have about crossed the chasm more into the mainstream.

    Note that the most Prius's ever sold in one year was about 237K in 2012 and has been dropping every year since then...just 43K last year.
    Meanwhile Tesla sold almost 500K last year(with 4 models) with about 1.5 factories on line. By the end of this year they will have 2 full factories and 2 just opened factories

    Mike
     
    #78 3PriusMike, Feb 25, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Camry with uncomfortable seats. The Sonic was more comfortable for me on such trips while driving, but I needed to reduce cars, and the Camry was more do it all. Eventually I'll pick up a BEV, and hopefully, replace the Camry with a Volvo or Outback for long trips and utility. If a PHEV or BEV that can do it all becomes reasonably available, I'll consider going back to one car.
     
  20. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Ok...but most of the Tesla owners I know are absolutely 'enthusiasts'...small sample size though, of course! (y)
     
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