Tesla Model 3 deemed to have a 30% profit margin by a teardown specialist

Taking your experience and generalizing to whole of “the public” is a bit of a stretch.

I also meet folks like that at shows, however, they are in the extreme minority.
It would be closer to reality, to say the public is extremely knowledgeable about both batteries and EVs, because I meet two engineers for every guy you described. It would still be wrong, but closer to right

 

My own mother asked me why all electric cars don't charge themselves like the Prius does. >facepalm<

 

You injected climate change denial which is a political strategy. So your responses are thoughtful and my responses are not thoughtful. You have succumb to the psychological profile of "I'm okay, Your're not okay." You might want to read up about that.

 

I did????
Crap.
I must be closer than I thought to having "the conversation" with the kiddos about taking dad's keys away.
I would have sworn that I never mentioned climate change in this thread....or maybe even in the Tesla portion of this forum.

Meanwhile.....

 

For the same cost in fuel, you'll be able to have more fun in the $50k BEV.

 

That depends on your definition of fun. What seems to be overlooked in a lot of these discussions is that car purchases are largely emotional decisions, and an ICE can provide a very visceral experience. Imagine trying to convince a Harley Davidson owner that a smooth quiet electric motor will be as much fun as their obnoxiously loud vibrator of an engine.

 

Actually....not all HD's are owned by middle aged white dudes, and not all of them are air cooled and de-baffled.
(disclaimer: I own a VRSCD - or V-Rod, which most Harley owners don't count as a 'real Harley')

The louder-than-stock pipes are fun to be sure, but they are not normally the acoustical version of coal rolling but rather they serve to get the attention of car drivers besotted with their glass screens while driving....and motorcycles are hardly the only auditory jerks on the road if I'm reading the number of threads just here in PC dealing with - subs......which used to mean my avatar, but now mean something a little different.

Sea Story:
My VROD is uncorked, but I usually ride at very low RPMs, because I try try very hard NOT to be a jerk about the noise.
I was idling at a very crowded intersection one summer when somebody in a $800 car with a $1000 sound system rolled up.
They did what kids in these parts always do......which is to do a quick scan for LEOs (we have a sound law) and then they cranked their system up to 'max distortion' and I saw the usual disgusted looks from my fellow motorists.....until.....

The reason that (other)Harley riders hate V-Rods is that they are liquid cooled, have a 9,200 RPM red-line, as opposed to the tractor-like throttle response of their air cooled bikes.
Tribalism you see, is not limited to the eco-car community.....

I throttled my bike up to about 9,199 RPM and completely noise-canceled the kids in the car.
This is not an adult response, and I expected to get mean-mugged and glared at the other drivers, but instead I got thumbs up and applause!!

TIFWIW....

 

Hahahahaha!!!! Well I guess that further proves my point that humans are strange creatures that don't make rational decisions

 

Harley owners are a challenge.
On the flip side, I have spoken with many Porsche, BMW, Aston Martin, Mustang, Corvette owners that have converted.
The choice is simple, you can have the sound, or the sensation that Electric provides.

Some people like the woopie cushion sound and can’t imagine life without it.
Others value the instant, effortless power of electric.

And even HD is experimenting with electric motorcycles.

Edit:
Looks like within 2 years. Harley-Davidson Is Making an Electric Motorcycle, After LiveWire - Bloomberg

A section from the article which boils it down nicely:

 

Yeah...I meant to mention that.

I'm not sure if it's a cheese grab, a lab project, or HD is trying to reach out to a new demographic before all of their riders switch to trikes and Depends.
I know that there's no way that I see myself riding an electric bike......

....I might as well just ride in a car.

 

I live in different worlds when I drive different cars. I love my new Prius and it is the car I drive daily. I have a few older luxury cars and then there is my 1999 Plymouth Prowler. I removed the stock muffler from the Prowler and put on a set of Sweet Thunders, like the Harley Riders it get noticed. I tell people I have mood cars, I drive a different car depending on what mood I am in.

 

Riding a motorcycle is a death wish! So riding a bicycle, which makes no sound, is a death wish? Tell that to billions of bicycle riders!

 

I'm not a motorcycle guy.
Even though I have always thought riding one would be a blast.
I know my weaknesses and also know I'd end up killing myself. So I never have pursued it.

However, I worked with a big motorcycle person. He rode his motorcycle as his daily driver and weekend "fun" machine. His motorcycle was his primary mode of transportation. I really respected him, because he had done it long enough, that he was just about the safest motorcyclist I ever saw or knew. He did admit to reaching this point from years, decades of riding. When he saw "kids" riding pocket rockets or anyone riding unsafely it bothered him. Probably because he had lived long enough to know what they were unnecessarily risking. Over the years he had friends that had died, and close calls himself when he was younger. But he loved motorcycles and riding motorcycles, and that was never going to change.

After long ramble to my point.
I remember mentioning to him one day, how I saw and heard this young kid jetting around in shorts and tennis shoes on a extremely loud motorcycle.
His answer was, that well at least the loudness of the motorcycle would serve as a warning to those around him that an "idiot was approaching" and it might just be the one thing that saves his life, and others.

People are always hesitant to add noise makers or warning devices. But it the future is a move away from internal combustion engines, and exhaust systems, to realms of nearly silent electric vehicles, I think it is a question and challenge we need to evaluate and ask ourselves.

I personally had no problem with the Prius warning sound. I could barely hear it from inside the vehicle...ever. Only time I heard it was sometimes in a drive through, with the window rolled down.
If it helped people recognize my presence in a parking lot or other public low speed congested area? Then it was of benefit.
At the very least the noise let some people know potentially "an idiot is approaching"...and that's OK with me.

 

Sure, I've heard that, although I agree with others that riding a motorcycle, period, is a death wish now-a-days.
However, why the non-sequitur?
Unless you rode the LiveWire and think it, or the upcoming HD electric motorcycle is 'silent'?

 

@

I'm also a bicycle rider, and yes....Riding one in traffic is much better than riding a motorcycle in traffic because when they harvest your organs and other tissues, then some will say that it's more carbon friendly.
I would never ever never EVER ride a bicycle on a highway in traffic east of the Rockies.
West of the Rockies I ride neither a bicycle NOR a motorcycle, but I would never ride a bicycle on any paved surface in the SoCal that they allow cars to drive on.
@

Can be....but do you want more years in your life...or life in your years? When I'm on one of my bikes.......motorized or otherwise, I take a ride IN the surrounding environment. When I'm in a car, I merely ride through it.
It's like rolling an EV. Either you know.....or you don't.
@

For non-riders, Harley riders consider a 'Sporty' to be a 'girls bike' because it "only" displaces 883cc - a term that they've only just warmed to rather than expressing their engine size in cubic inches.
I do not share in this because (a) nearly 900 cc is not "small" and (b) a moped will kill you just as fast as a ricer if you don't know how to ride.
I treat my mufflers like I treat my RPM capability.
They're there if I need them. but I rarely need them....and yes. People who go around unnecessarily yanking on their throttles are the same kind of poor ambassadors to THEIR community as those found in other groups.....
If I see you in a car, I place you into one of two categories.
Either:
(a) You don't see me.
(b) You DO see me and you're trying to kill me.

Good point.
The silence is presumptive on my part.

 

we have a lot of bicycles on the very narrow roads around here, and a lot of accidents. unfortunately, many bicycle and motorcycle accidents are the riders fault.

 

Oddly enough, just last week in our town we had an accident.
A bike rider buzzed through an intersection, he didn’t stop at the stop sign. He hit the side of a passing motorcycle, fell, and was struck by another car.
Sadly he died.

Important example of how drivers of vehicles must follow laws and be aware of other vehicles that may not.

 

unfortunately, there is no training, testing, registration or insurance requirements for bicycles. motorcycle riders have no such excuse.