Tesla Sand Bagging the Model 3 Again?

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by hill, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Although off-topic, it might be a useful conversation to see what cleaning supplies people do take with them on a trip rather than using the putrid water and harsh detergent, a worn out squeegee, and paper towels that can scratch a finish and destroy trees at a public gas station bucket.

    I carry a small squeegee, a 24 oz. spray bottle of distilled water, a properly diluted waterless car cleaner like ONR, and 2 to 4 good quality microfiber towels. Put everything in a waterproof bag and throw it into the hatch under the Prius trunk or into the Tesla frunk. I keep my cars looking new that way.
     
  2. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    All people are different, I do/did plan for them. Semper preparatus.

    Why do ICE people do that? It would be like me parking a BEV in the gas line while I went in to use the john, which I would never do. There is a lot of hostility and lack of understanding toward BEVs, including on this forum.

    I am not distracted by looking for "fuel" while driving a Tesla either. You just enter your route in the U.I. route planner and the software will direct you to the pre-determined charger stops via visual and audio commands on the U.I. You just preset what percentage charge you are comfortable when arriving at a Supercharger - 5%, 10%, 20%, 50%? Everyone is different. Coming from an ocean crossing power boating background where there are no diesel stations on every corner, I am comfortable with 15% range remaining equals about 50 miles in a model 3.

    Depending on your configuration and location, you could have a Tesla in as little as two weeks! Enjoy your test drive. (y)
     
    #102 el Crucero, Sep 1, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
  3. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Trees are a renewable resource (unlike ~85% of our current electricity supply) and I use them to clean the squeegee, not the car.
     
  4. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    And if the next charging station puts you at some negative % or several hours out of your way so you can't make your actual destination in time?

    My friend who had a 90D (before it obliterated itself) didn't believe me when I said I went somewhere you couldn't go in his car, so we walked out to his car and entered the destination (Carlsbad Caverns). His car said it couldn't get there. That surprised him, but not me.
     
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  5. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Yes, trees are renewable but forests are not currently being renewed. The world's forests are being reduced significantly by over cutting and global warming. To say otherwise is being uninformed.

    With regards to renewable energy, California continues to lead the way. "California leads the nation in electricity generation from non-hydroelectric renewable energy sources, including geothermal power, wind power, and solar power. California has some of the most aggressive renewable energy goals in the United States." California has set a goal of 50% renewable energy by 2030, but it appears it will reach that goal closer to 2020. Rooftop PV is skyrocketing here right now. The financial breakeven point for PV is approaching 5 years and that is even going lower as PV costs are going down due to economies of scale. I have already paid for my PV system through utility company savings. Now I generate free power for home use other than a $5/mo utility company administration fee. (y)
     
  6. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    That's odd! I just ran the route planner from my home in SoCal to Carlsbad NM with a model 3 LR. Easily doable, 888 miles total, 3 Supercharger stops (Buckeye, AZ, Tucson, AZ, Deming NM), 55 minutes total charge time in 888 miles, total cost of fuel for 888 miles = $12.11. I wonder if the right information was keyed into your friend's Tesla, you know, 12 stops in 18 days. :D But I said to myself, "give the guy a break." I ran the route from your home in Westminster, CO to Carlsbad - 592 miles, 1 stop in Las Vegas, NM for 21 minutes, total cost of 'fuel' = $4.80. Any other fear, uncertainty, and doubt?

    Once at the Caverns, there are a couple of RV parks where you can charge for a fee. Also, it has been reported that the NPS has added some chargers in the vicinity of the Caverns. The NPS is now converting service vehicles to EVs at the park so they need chargers for that.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You approached Carlsbad headed East. Lee has to approach headed South. Choose a starting point in Western Colorado headed to Carlsbad and you'll see the problem. There are five major East-West routes with plenty of SuperChargers. But they are sometimes too far away for a North-South bridge. For example, Western Kansas needing to reach South of the Oklahoma panhandle in North Texas.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. Fred_H

    Fred_H Misoversimplifier

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    Las Vegas, NM to Carlsbad Caverns NP and back, with 1 1/2 hour charge & lunch break at Carlsbad KOA on the way, and 9 1/2hour charge & sleep overnight at KOA, and 10 minute charge & coffee break on the return:

    A Better Routeplanner

    Parameters:
    Model 3 Long Range Aero
    Max. Speed 75 mph
    Start Depart Charge 98%
    Min. Arrival Charge 10%
    Outside Temperature 100°F
    Wind 3 mph headwind
    Extra Weight 500 lbs
    Battery Degradation 5%


    Lee Jay is right that this trip is not possible with a Tesla on the exact same route that he drove, and if you are in a hurry, not in the same time. But it is possible with some compromises and changes of habits.

    Personally, as an easygoing traveler, this trip would take me only half an hour more with a Tesla, which I would have no problem with. If the compromises of driving a Tesla are unacceptable for Lee Jay, then a Tesla is not the best car for him, and I acknowledge and respect his choice of the car that is best for him.


    But what does all this have to do with the adjustment of the official power rating?
     
  9. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    There is no problem

    That is the general strategy, but my route planner does not require a 1 1/2 hour charge at KOA. I do figure average speed at the speed limit of 65/70 mph. Also there are hotel facilities in the vicinity of the Caverns, from basic to deluxe, where you can charge overnight for free.

    Now if Lee wants to drive the 592 miles to the Caverns visit them and then drive back home all in one day, then that will be a problem. But how many people would make a trip like that? Only the outliers.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Choose a starting point in Western Colorado headed to Carlsbad and you'll see the problem.

    I ran the route from your home in Westminster, CO to Carlsbad - 592 miles, 1 stop in Las Vegas, NM for 21 minutes, total cost of 'fuel' = $4.80. Any other fear, uncertainty, and doubt?

    Once at the Caverns, there are a couple of RV parks where you can charge for a fee. Also, it has been reported that the NPS has added some chargers in the vicinity of the Caverns. The NPS is now converting service vehicles to EVs at the park so they need chargers for that.
    There is no problem

    Let's see:
    • 207 mi - Westminster CO to Trinidad CO
    • 195 mi - Trinidad CO (*) to Santa Rosa NM
    • 215 mi - Santa Rosa NM to Carlsbad NM
    • . . . seek high current chargers: NEMA 14-50, one in either RV park
    • 215 mi - Carlsbad NM to Santa Rosa NM
    You can reach Carlsbad NM but the problem is the return trip. Plugshare shows two, NEMA 14-50 plugs at separate RV parks. You'll have to call and negotiate or reserve access. Given the temperature extremes, these are likely fully subscribed.

    * - PlugShare shows this as under construction. However, others have reported getting a charge and two down units in August. It is very likely the planning attempt @Lee Jay tried could not include the recently opened, Trinidad CO, SuperCharger station that was not operational.

    This is the same problem I have waiting on a SuperCharger at Fort Smith AR. Although there is a CHAdeMO charger near Rogers AR, it would add 120 miles and +3 hours.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. tpenny67

    tpenny67 Active Member

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    I think this will be an entirely different discussion when fast charging stations are 20 miles apart instead of 200 miles apart. Right now driving an EV on a long trip requires more planning than driving an ICE, and that's okay because EVs are a tiny fraction of the vehicle population. The charging infrastructure must grow before EVs can have significant market share, and I expect that to happen over the next decade. We are not in the future yet, however.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I'm not staying at a campground with my family, I'm staying at a hotel (my kids like to swim). I stayed at a hotel in Artesia, NM 2 miles from a fabulous restaurant. As far as I could tell, from Tesla, PlugShare and ChargePoint, there were no hotels anywhere between Las Vegas, NM and Carlsbad Caverns that had even an available L1 outlet, much less something that could charge a dead Tesla overnight. And there aren't any planned on the SuperCharger site.

    When we drove there, the winds were 25-35mph, mostly across the highway. That eats power like crazy.
     
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  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Better still, Tesla communicates their status before the driver arrives. This gives the option of diverting to a working station or sensible alternatives.
    My recent, BMW i3-REx road trip reveals the truth behind "range anxiety" such as this benchmark:
    [​IMG]
    The actual trip took ~8 hours instead of the Google Map predicted ~5 hours. Part of the delay was taking a longer route to reach the fast DC chargers in Manchester and Nashville. The active charging took ~90 minutes because the EPA battery range, 72 milesI was close to the EV segment distances. But there was 30 minutes lost at Manchester to get 1 of 4 Electrify America chargers to work. I also lost ~15 minutes in Nashville because of the obscure charger location. So I posted a better location photo in PlugShare.

    Cost is another problem as the EV trip ran $26.97 versus $6.26 for gas using the direct route. Prices and performance varies but 4x the cost to drive EV vs gas between Huntsville-Nashville is not trivial. Driving took ~ 3hr 30m to reach Nashville including the rush hour delay while the return trip was ~2h 30min including filling 2.3 gallon tank. There are places in the growing SuperCharger network where that is true today. Certainly the long range Model 3 helps and new SuperCharger stations are bridging important gaps.

    This is where a plug-in hybrid shines on a road trip using shorter direct routes, faster drive time, and lower cost. I am sympathetic to not burning and paying for gasoline. Although progress has been made, EVs and the charging network(s) are a work in progress.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  14. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Bob, as you know, the model 3 could have made this 256 mile trip without stops of any kind and still have 35% battery charge remaining. Teslas are the only EV on the market today or even planned to be introduced, that could make this trip without stopping because of their superior range. The proposed BEV introductions by I-Pace, MBZ, Audi, BMW, VW, Porsche all have all empty range of 250 miles at best. Extended range cars from other makers will be introduced at some time in the future no doubt, maybe 5 years?, but who knows. It just shows how far they are behind Tesla in BEV technology. I expect that Tesla will be introducing models with 600 mile range within the next 2 to 3 years. I suspect that the model Y will have range of around 400 miles when introduced next year.

    With regards to a PHEV like the i3 REx, it is best suited as an "around town" car with real challenges when trying to road trip for any distances beyond its EV range and 2.3 gallon gas tank and no Supercharger system. Currently, a Tesla is the best choice as an "all around" EV and it's only going to get better in the FUTURE (if the CEO will stop wasting his time on Twitter).
     
  15. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    The same is true of a Tesla - best used as an around-town car.

    Again, 4 of the 4 out-of-state trips I've been on in the 17 months since I got my Prime have included legs you couldn't have made in any Tesla without major delays and/or diversions, and in two cases not at all, at least using any of the charging systems (Tesla, ChargePoint, Blink, Evgo, etc.). That's just the situation when the car has a short range (even most conventional cars have a range exceeding 450 miles), limited places to charge (there are 120,000 gas stations in the US versus a few hundred Supercharger stations, possibly approaching 1,000 now), and charging is slow (an hour versus a few minutes). It's not "range anxiety", it's just lack of range and lack of places to recharge quickly.
     
  16. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Classic FUD!
     
  17. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    ^^^ Classic denial of reality!
     
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  18. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I think you've explained a dozen times that you are an except...an outlier that never goes on a trip near a supercharger.
    AND el Crucero has claimed, over and over how many superchargers there are.

    Could I suggest that it might be more productive to convince those that have low mpg gas cars to upgrade to high mpg, or PHEV or BEV.

    Sorry

    Mike
     
  19. San_Carlos_Jeff

    San_Carlos_Jeff Active Member

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    Your reality is not necessarily everyone else's reality. In my case a Tesla would work great for the road trips I take to Southern CA or to visit relatives in Reno. The last time I drove 600 miles in a day was...never.
     
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  20. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Not one of those legs was over 600 miles in a day. They were over 600 miles between chargers. Well, one was more like 450. But not in the same day.

    Ironically, the one leg I drove 600 miles in a day was easily doable in almost any Tesla (I-70 from Kansas City to Denver).
     
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