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Tesla Solar Scam?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by ETC(SS), Aug 12, 2022.

  1. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    One of my Yoo-Tube subs.
    Florida based, Science Teacher.
    He usually posts about Home Automation/IOT but I thought that EVangelists might enjoy this:

    TL ; DR - Tesla Solar isn't necessarily a 'scam' per-se, but you WILL want to do your homework BEFORE you get hitched.

     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    homework (due diligence) is important. but i didn't think so in high school
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    His complaints about education and communication from Tesla are valid, and are probably common through much of the industry. He is still behind the curve on the education side. Full disclosure: I am a retired electrical engineer, and designed and installed my own solar system, so already knew or learned this stuff (or at least the parts I needed) ahead of time.

    "Interestingly, if i go to a solar energy estimation site and I put in my proposed solar install details, it estimates that 10.2 kW of solar panels in my location should produce 15,795 kWh a year..."

    Woah Nellie! You mis-entered your details! You input these as all south facing:
    upload_2022-8-12_19-44-51.png

    ... when the proposed layout was split among the four compass directions, thus having different orientations with respect to the sun's track:
    upload_2022-8-12_19-46-6.png

    Therefore, that 15,795 kWh/year estimate is invalid. Garbage in, garbage out. You should have entered your system in four parts, one for each orientation.

    Re: clipping, with 10.2 kW of DC capacity vs just 7.6 kW of AC capacity ... " In a properly designed system, you really shouldn't see a flat top."

    This clipping is standard industry practice, not just a Tesla practice, and there are very good economic reasons for it. But the reasons do require more in depth discussion than he was given or even now understands. An inverter larger enough to never clip would likely not pay for itself in increased production, the money likely would produce better return if put into more panels to boost the shoulders of the daily production curves. But a true economic optimization for a specific house would involve considerable labor cost, and need to include current pricing of the full selection of possible component choices, which change rapidly. Almost no one does it for a single house.

    Even my local utility lists systems by the larger DC figure, not the smaller AC figure. FWIW, my system has 7 kW DC, 6 kW DC, a smaller DC/AC ratio than his system, partly related to the panels being more expensive in relation to the inverters back then than is normal today. But also partly related to available equipment ratings and pricings at the time I purchased my components.

    String groupings vs orientation of each panel group ... his concerns should have been taken care of by the power optimizers mentioned on a web pages he displayed, "microinverters vs power optimizers", but didn't discuss.

    There was no scam here, but there was a lack of sufficient education and communication. And an unreasonable delay in getting PTO (Permission To Operate) paperwork in order.

    Being served by a solar-friendly public utility, I had no PTO delay whatsoever. As soon as I had made all the connections and flipped the breaker to test functionality, around dinnertime a couple hours after the end of the business day, I was live and delivering to the grid. Electrical permit inspection happened the next day, utility inspection and installation of the official production meter happened about two weeks later. (The utility's grid interconnection agreement was filed and approved before installation.) Nobody had their nose the least bit out of joint that I was already feeding into the grid. The application for the first annual production incentive payment even had a separate space to fill in an estimate of how much energy was produced before the utility installed its official production meter.
     
    #3 fuzzy1, Aug 12, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
    bisco and ammdb like this.
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Like I said.....
    'homework - THEN get hitched.'

    Now that the curiously named "Inflation Reduction Act" is about to be signed into law, there will be a period of twanging as the rubber band gets more fully wound up before a flood of new orders orders engulfs an industry that is already ground saturated.

    If the tax kickbacks get issued at the point of sale as is rumored about for BEV/PHEVs I see some interesting times ahead, because Tesla is a TOP tier solar provider. There are more than a few bottom feeders, and the paperwork in some states to launch a grid-tie system is already WAAAAAAAAAAY to labyrinthine in many locales.

    FUN times ahead.....
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the internet is an easy place to make yourself look silly, i do it all the time, but refrain from identifying myself to avoid ridicule.
    but i suppose if you're trying to make a living at it, it might be worth it