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Texas Starship Testing

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Nov 24, 2020.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Little damage to ground structures. Both stages blew up as flight termination systems would have caused them to (even if FTS did not cause). 2nd stage made most of its speed and altitude requirements. Overall much more success than failure.

    Expecting 3rd launch license to be issued very rapidly this time. 3rd launch may not happen so very soon though, if anti-slosh baffles need to be installed in methane tanks. That is speculation based on ARS Technica speculation and should not be over rated.
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Watching reruns, I notice the flatline low altitude. For any sort of even suborbital, it should have exceeded 160 km with closer to 200 km better. Above 200 km, you’re pretty much in orbit.

    Speculation, second stage FTS ensured the debris went into water.

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Telemetry data from this will inform Starship thing doers for their next shot. 'Enough' data will be shared with FAA and other deciders to allow the next up going. +3 months seems not unlikely.

    There is already a large supply of Starship hardware available. 2024 will be year when 'they' show flight-control successes. 2025 for human occupancy, maybe. 2026 to use methalox to 'Starship' humans millions km out there.
    ==
    It is truly a bad time to be 80 yrs old, cause ya gonna miss it.
     
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Actually, it's a fantastic time to be 80.
    Beats trying it 50 years ago.

    BUT - there are just SOME things an 80-year old will not be able to do during those next few years you mentioned.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    are astronauts limited to 80?
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    John Glenn caught a shuttle ride.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    From your link:

    "Both methods of breath holding are dangerous and can lead to a condition called shallow water blackout (SWB). ...
    While there are no medically documented benefits of underwater hypoxic training, there are many warnings against it. The YMCA Lifeguarding textbook On the Guard states “Make it a priority to prevent breath-holding activities or games of any kind.” ... The US Navy, USA Swimming, the American Red Cross, and the American Swimming Coaches Association have all issued public statements against this practice."


    I'm seeing figures of 6 liters of air for an average male, 4.2 liters for average female, and about 12 liters for a couple Olympic gold medalists, a swimmer and a rower.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lung_volumes#Values
     
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  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    BFR next flight test does not yet have an announced date. May be soon because only FAA approval is needed (correct?). While waiting there are many things written about survival on Mars. That's the point, tight?

    NASA/TP-2015–218570/REV2

    is about 200 pages of dense NASA tech.

    A City on Mars | The Planetary Society

    Is lighter fare, described in this interview. Authors are pessimistic.

    Why We Should Settle Mars

    Strikes back on those authors.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    LOL, can you imagine? :p
     
  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Yes.
    I can....
    My longest submarine patrol was something like 112 days - and the accommodations aboard my boat were positively spacious and luxurious compared with what passage to Mars would be like.
    Considerably safer too, considering my exposure to radiation was considerably lessened by all the seawater and I was a lot closer to sunlight and O2.

    We will be a multi-planet species eventually, but we're going to need to practice living on the nearest rock first.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Some of the non political comics I posted were from the husband side of the book authors.
     
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I like very much to think that, as the alternative is that we won't be, and thus, sooner or later, won't be anywhere.

    I'm not sure we've proven that we're completely incapable of achieving the alternative, though.
     
  13. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Humanity will probably go through a few more eyewall replacement cycles, but we're a fairly clever and VERY invasive species.

    It used to be that the hardest part about space flight was those first six inches.
    Now we have more than one (or even two) centibillionaires cosplaying Buck Rogers with phallic rockets.
    Space 2.0 is going to center around learning to LIVE there.
    Seems to me that we can do that locally before planting flags on other planets.

    History paints a very romantic picture of hearty pioneers in their Conestoga wagons and (later) Prairie schooners but it's important to remember that in the beginning of this migration Darwin asserted itself and LOTS of painful lessons were learned - the hard way.
     
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  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Humans got past Toba 76 thousand years ago which has been described as very severe. Walked the entire planet about 20 thousands ago confronting some large hungry beasts no longer around. So emphatically yes, H sapiens has survival cred. Others of same genus, not as much.

    Yet we'd better not confuse survival of small tight groups with survival of the technology associated with carrying 8 billions and food and all the rest of it. The latter has tested A+ robust only in a narrow flight envelope.

    ==
    But ya know, Earth, bah. Mars is right out there only a few hundred moons away. Towards that end, Starship prepares for 3rd test flight, but scant hours away.
     
  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Notification set for 0650.....
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    They “lost” it? Could have put an AirTag on it…

    heat shield failure?
     
  17. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Time will tell.....

    I watched until after the Pez dispenser door test.
    REALLY great video during the launch and just about flawless to LEO.

    They didn't stick the landings (NOT an unimportant part!!!)
    In my never to be humbled opinion..................they will eventually.

    How many Starlink satellites will fit in Starship? ;)

    UPDATE:
    I watched the remainder of the available video until LOS during re-entry.
    Amazing!

    I'm 'pretty sure' that the root cause for the RUD flambeau will be ascertained.
    As they said during the test flight:
    The cargo for this flight was data.
    I would appear just from what they released that the ship was filled to capacity during the mission.
     
    #57 ETC(SS), Mar 14, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2024
  18. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

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    You got my attention with eyewall replacement cycles. Back in my early Air Force Weather active duty days (early 80's) I worked with a Navy LTJG at the Joint Typhoon Warning Center, Guam to study and then publish a paper describing the satellite observed visual aspects of a tropical cyclone eyewall replacement cycle and subsequent intensification of said cyclone. I learned so, SO much meteorology from that fellow which has served me well up to present time.

    Can't leave without saying something about the human infestation of our living mother earth. Notice that the planet may be responding to the pressures of this ever increasing human "infection" with a fever (climate change-global warming) and counter infections (COVID pandemic) in an attempt to shake loose the human bug. I can only guess what will happen when the "coughing" to relieve congestion begins.
     
    #58 AzWxGuy, Mar 14, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2024
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  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Not comfortable with human infestation metaphor. Maybe uncomfortable with being an infester :eek:

    It's not just 8.1 billion of us, it's 0.94 billion cattle, 0.78 billion pigs, 26.6 billion chickens, and enough agriculture to feed all those. Human pop may peak at about 10 billion mid-century, and if those other categories also increase 20%, that will be a difficult enterprise to maintain. I suppose difficult to maintain even with optimal climates everywhere. As that won't be the case, it will be quite a ride for quite some time.

    ==
    Starship is about the most fun way I can imagine to burn a million kilograms of methane. There may be more entertaining ways to burn stuff with 3.5 million kilograms of liquid oxygen, but I'm afraid to imagine them.

    Falcon 9 is now putting about 60 starlinks into LEO per shot. I understand that Starship could do 6 times that when it becomes operational. Maybe 400 per shot could be attained.
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    As for reentry, one mitigation would be to fire a small set of engines to reduce speed and duration like the Falcon 9. Of course this robs payload to carry the extra oxidizer/fuel.

    This test also evaluated how strong the engine first, entry structures are. I don't remember seeing tiles around the bells of the engines which I would expect to be required.

    Another approach, an 'angle of attack' relative to the forward velocity with a re-enforced, tile covered, engine compartment with bells exposed. At these speeds, it may be enough to deflect the re-entry plasma away from the engine bells. There would be radiant heating but that may be handled by a recessed, tile covered, heat shield.

    Bob Wilson