The 2014 list of CARB States in the US

MD is good Troy, I think. We had quite a few members from CA buy PiPs in MD just for that reason.

Intersting though to consider the complexity of Toyota's rules (those rules we do not know) for example NY, OR, WA, DE are not full CARB so what happens in those cases: an NY or PA to CA move? we are not allowed to know the answer. But it seems to me such a Toyota rule based system starts to fall apart.

 

Quick brain teaser that I think I already know the answer, does the longer warranty apply in PA if it was originally purchased and registered in CA? (a CA to PA move).

I have a 2008 Prius with 130,000 mi. Car was purchased used in CA (1 owner, CA), registered in CA until 120,000. Last year it was registered in PA, a partial CARB state. Did I lose the longer warranty when I moved? My plan was to drive this until around 150,000, but losing the battery warranty may help swing my decision to trade-up to a Gen III.

If it doesn't apply; anyone near western PA looking for a well maintained '08 with 130,000 mi? She's clean and still gets over 50 MPG.

 

Before I give my guess, I need to stress Toyota's approach (and I actually asked them to give me an idea of the rules in such cases) is to not disclose their answer to questions like this about their rules. They want to address these matters one-on-one with customers. And I must say, Toyota in many cases they have been very nice to customers giving them say 50% off or more.

My guess is: Toyota would reduce your coverage to PA CARB coverage (no batt extension). But you cannot listen to me, the answer is Toyota wants you to ask them. Who knows there could be some weird legal exception with 2008's so they want to handle one-on-one.

Guess what: I am a Burghguy too!

Better yet, how about someone in MD interested in this vehicle? Caution, you're about to enter the Twilight zone of Toyota rule mania.

 

dupe

 

Given Toyota's previous history of voiding customers' powertrain warranties (even when the engine died as young as 15,000 miles)(with dealer records of oil changes), I put zero faith that Toyota would honor the CARB 150,000 mile emissions warranty in Pennsylvania. Or even Maryland (carb).

In the case of the Fugitive Slave Act, it was actually the Northern states that were worse. The central government tried to slap them down, but Massachusetts and the rest threatened secession.

 

...that's a little strong, but probably the correct way to be thinking (as far as advising people who ask here)...we must assume Toyota is trying to protect itself from too many battery repairs, so we cannot assume Toyota will restore full CARB (in a hypothetical transfer to MD) after it was in all liklihood lost in the CA to PA leg of the vehicle's journey.

 

Yeah I realize it's strong but as the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Now that I know Toyota* has a history of voiding customer warranties, I would prefer not to trust them (else I have no one to blame but myself).

* also Volkswagen
* with imploding fuel pumps; they blame the customer for it

 

Jimbo, the above is from GM 2014 warranty and I think it is consistent with FORD and TOYOTA.

The following are the 13 current CARB states: CA, CT, ME, MA, MD, NJ, OR, PA, RI, VT, WA, NY and add DE as of 2014
PA, WA, DE don't include battery extension are semi-CARB
OR, NY include battery extension but are semi-CARB
Wikipedia says WASH DC is CARB but no one else mentions it ...checking
So I am thinking: AZ, NM, and NH are former CARB states (not current...I think OP shows NM and NH as active)

Neither FORD nor GM warranties give a hoot about when the 13 states joined CARB...that's strictly a Toyota rule (maybe HONDA is with Toyota on that). We really need to pin down those years in CARB accurately for the sake of Prius owners...I am not even sure Toyota has the CARB years down accurately. That may be part of the problem.

The reference below (a little outdated) gives a second opinion on CARB MY start dates for some states, but I don't understand the difference between Year Adopted and Year Effective
Emission Standards: United States

 

Jimbo- Re: Maryland I am advised by a senior member of PriusChat that 2011 is the model year for which CARB applies. However, the plot thickens, apparently it's not so simple as to say MD 2011 Model year. Apparently the Toyota dealers can run your VIN (eg; for 2010 ) to advise you if your 2010 vehicle is CARB qualified by Toyota's rules. Not sure what happens for 2011's purchased in 2010.

 

It seems odd that an American company would give better warranty coverage than the Japanese one. (Though Toyota is known for voiding warranties even when customer was not to blame.)

 

Well, it's complicated.

Toyota chooses to sell same car: top-notch, AT PZEV California-certified vehicles on the emission sticker, apparently to ALL of us in the USA. Apparently Toyota got permission from CARB to allow disqualification of CARB warranty by policy based on warranty rules (Toyota rules - vehicle must be sold, registered, and normally driven in a CARB state). Honda seems to use similar rules but I am thinking Honda drops the state-of-sale disqualificaton (which makes no sense when you think about it).

FORD and GM are just using the emission sticker to say if your car is CA-certified, and you live in CARB, you're qualified (as far as I can tell). But I assume you might have to buy a FORD or GM in a CARB state to get a properly qualified sticker/vehicle.

Interesting technical implications too: We all complain about the Toyota Prius' low MPG in the first 5 minutes. I've heard it said here FORD hybrids are better MPG than Prii the first 5-10 mins. But I wonder if the initial MPG hit is just due to California regs, and so if you buy a non-Ca-certified FORD hybrid maybe you get better MPG? I do not know. Which would you pick: Better MPG or CARB Warranty? But at least with FORD (I assume) you can control your state of purchase to maintain CA-certification if you want to.

Anyways I think CARB should tell Toyota what rules it is allowed to set...right now I think Toyota a little overboard.

I wrote a big essay on all this CARB stuff but I am afraid to post until I feel it is appropriate.

 

Afraid of what?

 

errors and I am not trying to put anyone down

 

I bet the Ford does have the same same engine code regardless of of state sold. Having a different engine certified for CARB and fed states appears to be a thing of the past.
The Volt is one of the few cars with differing engine codes. GM had the emission addon to reduce CO to get the HOV sticker in Ca. They don't charge extra for it, but somebody probably figured they could save some cash by having people have to order it extra.

 

I'll ask FotoMoto to pop the hood on his TX CMAX...if I remember correctly

 

The Ford hybrids do have multiple engine codes. All are bin 3 in federal states. One of them becomes PZEV in CARB. There is only one for the Energis that goes bin3 to PZEV. Does Ford use a different sticker for the PZEV engined car if shipping to a federal state?

The Ford site has Pa cookies for me, but in the past, before Pa went CARB, you could order Ca emissions for a car if you were in a fed state.

Compare Side-by-Side

 

I didn't see any MPG difference by state, but maybe EPA test are on warmed up car

>>>I am online with an "article" about CARB complexities

CARB Warranty Ins-and-Outs (and In-Out-Ins) | PriusChat

 

The EPA test's original purpose is for emissions. The MPG numbers are derived from those tests. In short, the same tests. At least the original city and highway test cycles. I don't think the new test cycles are used for emissions.

If the engine code is the same for federal and CARB, it has the same engine, emission controls, and ECU programing. When the federal rating is lower, it is to save money. Mainly on emission warranty work. Remember, the 8yr/100k mile warranty is a federal mandated one for all cars on emission control equipment. (It might include components that aren't obviously emission control, so check it if when you have problems outside of the factory warranties.) A Ca emission system rated lower should cost a company very little in warranty work.

With the federal regulations getting stricter, the days obvious difference between federal and CARB car fuel economy are long gone. The Civic VX had lean burn in federal states that allowed a marked improvement in fuel economy, but that was back in the early 1990s. You can't even pull up the federal and CARB mpg numbers on the current fueleconomy.gov site anymore. Now, the only difference might be in power output. IIRC, the previous generation Focus had 1hp less for the CARB engine.

So the likelyhood of different mpg ratings is very small. Which is why I am surprised to see 3 different codes for the Fusion hybrid. Maybe 2 for federal and CARB. Perhaps a separate code for fleet vehicles?

Another bone to chew on, this was in the pop up when an engine code is clicked at fueleconomy.gov.
"Two vehicles look identical and have identical Engine Family or Test Group IDs, but the automaker has decided to certify the vehicles to different emission standards. Although this web site provides smog rating personalization by state, the fuel economy labels that are affixed to these vehicles on dealership lots will always reflect the federal standard."

 

...somewhere I saw USA adopting CARB standards in 2018 or something like that.
I don't know if that means this stuff all goes away or what.