The alternative to the hydrogen economy: An electron economy

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by GregP507, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    "Economically, the wasteful hydrogen process translates to electricity from hydrogen and fuel cells costing at least four times as much as electricity from the grid. In fact, electricity would be much more efficiently used if it were sent directly to the appliances instead. If the original electricity could be directly supplied by wires, as much as 90% could be used in applications."

    Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense
     
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    It's a 2006 article and not sure it is correct.
    Not worth debating a 2006 article.
     
  3. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I believe it shows us that nothing substantial has changed.
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    but everything has changed...we would need to ask the author is he would still make the same arguments or not
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    hydrogen is being touted as allowing 300 mile range today, vs ev range. not really being pushed as more efficient. i think the true believers (if they are genuine) don't think battery technology will improve enough to make ev's functional. the problem is, they're depending on natural gas, which may be problematic because every industry is interested in it.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    A FCV is more efficient than an ICE in using the 'fuel' to make the car go. Efficiency compared to an EV depends more on how the hydrogen is made. From electrolysis, the EV wins. From NG, they are both close.
    Many of the plugins available in the US are using better batteries now than when they first came to market, and there isn't any sign of them to stop improving in the near future.
    FCVs are dependent upon cheap natural gas. With demand from other industries and residential use, that likely isn't going to last. Even now using NG means a FCV will cost about as much as an ICE on gasoline per mile to fuel.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    but electricity has the opportunity to come from sun, wind and hydro. i suppose science might come up with a non fossil fuel way of separating hydrogen some day?
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Like this: Bionic leaf: Researchers use bacteria to convert solar energy into liquid fuel -- ScienceDaily
    "Their work integrates an "artificial leaf," which uses a catalyst to make sunlight split water into hydrogen and oxygen, with a bacterium engineered to convert carbon dioxide plus hydrogen into the liquid fuel isopropanol."

    I think the catalyst, or something similar, was once posted here. It takes less energy than electrolysis, but is still in the lab. So cheaper, non-fossil fuel hydrogen be possible. Directly converting it to an alcohol with solve the infrastructure issues that plague it.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sounds like ev should be the 'bridge' to hydro whatever.:cool:
     
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