The Electric Car Driver Poll

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Skwyre7 @ Jun 19 2007, 06:18 AM) [snapback]464567[/snapback]</div>

I just could not part with the EV Fox , So I took it off ebay ended it early.
No sale for now anyway, too much fun

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 18 2007, 09:06 PM) [snapback]464451[/snapback]</div>

I agree. There's no such thing as a free lunch (well, sometimes there is). Somebodies gotta harsh the smugness or we'll get lazy and complacent.

Daniel, you have to eat more food to go the distance on foot (then, there's always your shoes). Over time that'll outstrip the cost of production of the bike. You're using Art Spinella's argument that production (energy) costs are higher than operating costs.

Craig, thanks for the links! Very cool. It's neat to see all of the different vehicles that people are converting.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Jun 19 2007, 09:22 AM) [snapback]464726[/snapback]</div>

The number of food calories required for human-powered transportation is insignificant. You can run a mile on an apple.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jun 19 2007, 06:18 AM) [snapback]464598[/snapback]</div>

Ah, but you don't get to disagree with something I did not say, nor intend. I wasn't Art Spinella'ing this. I said that bicycling is a more efficient form of transportation than walking. I said nothing about the environmental damage. The bicycle machine simply allows human power to perform more work per unit of energy expended. Efficiency was my only point.

** note: I think we disagreed on hard water details too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jun 19 2007, 08:00 PM) [snapback]465033[/snapback]</div>

If you can run a mile on an apple, then you can ride five miles on that same apple. Me, I can do very little on an apple, so I just eat them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 20 2007, 10:55 PM) [snapback]465609[/snapback]</div>

I once watched a clown at a street fair juggle an apple, an onion, and a rubber ball. As he juggled them, he ate the apple, taking a bite each time it came into his hand. It was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

I think you did claim to out-smug me on account of the bicycle, and your seniority. But smugness is an attitude, and while I humbly yield to you on environmentalism, I yield to nobody on smugness when it comes to Yevette.

 

So I don't think we've heard from seven EV drivers in this thread, have we? Yet we have seven votes. The thing that scares me is the number of Prius drivers who truly think that they ARE driving EVs. None of you guys of course... the... uh, slower drivers.

 

<div align="center">erghhh !!</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jun 19 2007, 08:18 AM) [snapback]464598[/snapback]</div>

But shoes need to be manufactured too and as a runner I replace my shoes every 200 miles. Bike tires go much farther than that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jun 21 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]466184[/snapback]</div>

Every 200 miles??? Are you nuts? Modern running shoes are good for at least a thousand miles, very conservatively. After that, the springy stuff starts to lose its spring. Unless you get the high-tech ones, which last longer. Back in the old days I used to get them re-soled halfway through. But the soles seem to have improved, and I no longer find it necessary. And if you must replace them that often, they are virtually new and you can donate them so they continue to get used for many years.

I buy new running shoes every one to two years. The old ones become my regular wearing shoes. When the next pair of running shoes moves down to regular wearing, the older regular wearing shoes get donated. Bicycle tires wind up in the landfill much sooner.

I repeat, though, that I am an infant compared to Darell as regards environmentalism. It's only on smugness I will not yield.

As for musical smugness, nothing written after 1791 (the year Mozart died) is really music.

And as for fashion clothing, nothing is a greater waste of money.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jun 19 2007, 09:00 PM) [snapback]465033[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, but where did that apple come from? Someone invested fuel and fertilizer to grow it and more fuel to transport it. Sure, you're in WA so that's not far but it adds up. A vegetarian diet saves a tremendous amount of energy, especially if grain fed beef is included in the alternative. So it would seem that over a long period of time (and distance) the bicycle might save you more.

Darrel, I wasn't accusing you of being Spinella. I was comparing your disagreement with Daniel to being one like Spinella has used. He argues that the bulk of the energy used during a vehicles lifetime is consumed in the production/disposal of the vehicle. Everyone else, of course, has it the other way around.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jun 22 2007, 10:00 AM) [snapback]466353[/snapback]</div>

Do you run 80 miles a week (or more)? It's the running that kills em, but yeah, they're still good for just walking around for a long time after that. A friend of mine who ran that much would go through shoes like no tomorrow. I think he put about 400 miles on a pair. I took them off his hands when he was done with them, a couple of times, anyways. I still have one pair that he gave me back in '96!

Mozart's alright. He did some good stuff in the 1787-91 period (the Requiem Mass is his best work by far, except Eine Kleine Nacht Musik, yuck) but most of his stuff prior to that is lacking in substance. It's good stuff, it's obviously stood the test of time, but it's crap compared to Beethoven's later work, for example or much of Bach's catalogue.

I couldn't agree with you more here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Jun 21 2007, 08:58 AM) [snapback]465722[/snapback]</div>

Good to see that word on PC. Are you from Blighty?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Jun 22 2007, 09:46 AM) [snapback]466387[/snapback]</div>

No worries! I never inferred the comparison - I just took your comment and expanded on it a bit. If one person beating on Daniel is good, two must be better, is my thinking.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Jun 22 2007, 10:03 AM) [snapback]466396[/snapback]</div>

If we're talking miles per pair, the length of time it takes to put on those miles is irrelevant. Today's good running shoes are still brand new after 200 miles.

Back in the old days I ran about 20 miles a week. Last year it was vastly reduced because of the a-fib that often prevented my jogging at all. We'll see how high I can get it now, but I am including other types of aerobic exercise as well, so I'd be very happy with 10 to 15 miles a week now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 22 2007, 02:13 PM) [snapback]466568[/snapback]</div>

You folks are just envious of Allan and me because our EVs get so much positive notice. Rednecks shout "I love your car," skinheads give me the thumbs up, kids think it's super-cool. Everybody loves it. In contrast, look at all the "Why-does-everybody-hate-Priuses?" threads. It looks a little like a garden pest but I think it's the most popular car in Spokane. Even Darrel's Rav4EV is an ugly old SUV. Nobody's ever going to tell Darell his car is cute. B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Jun 22 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]466557[/snapback]</div>

Cor luv a dook. If I were a Scouser I'd say it's ace. But the only thing worse than a Scouser is a Manc (well, Mackems and Smoggies are worse than both) so I'll just say that it's crackin'.

Assuming that Darell doesn't hang out with Excursion driving soccer moms... but if he did he'd hear it day and night.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think that they'd beg to differ with you. My buddy was a poor grad student. If he could get away with buying fewer shoes he would have. But training at a high level will wear you out if your equipment isn't up to the task. 20 miles in one week was extremely light for him.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Jul 2 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]471584[/snapback]</div>

Of course 20 miles in a week would be light for him. But 20 miles is still 20 miles, and 200 miles is still 200 miles. Whether you put those miles on in a day or in a year, the miles are the same, and what wears out the shoes are the miles, not the days.

Maybe your poor friend was buying cheap shoes? You can expect to get fewer miles per dollar with cheap shoes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jun 22 2007, 11:00 AM) [snapback]466353[/snapback]</div>

From www.sportsmedicine.about.com

How long do running shoes last?
Running in old or worn out shoes can lead to an increase in running injuries. Over time running shoes lose stability and shock absorption capacity. When this happens the stress to the feet and legs increases dramatically. Over time such added stress can lead to an overuse injury. A simple prevention strategy includes replacing running shoes when they wear out.

The midsole layer of a shoe provides the cushioning and stability. This area usually wears out before the outsole shows major signs of wear. When a midsole wears out the shoe looses functional stability. It is this loss of stability and cushioning that leads to increased stress and increased injury risk.

It is recommended that you replace running shoes between 350-550 miles depending on your running style, body weight, and the surface on which you run. Lighter runners can get closer to the upper end of the recommendation while heavier runners are harder on shoes and should consider replacement shoes closer to 350 miles.


I run long distances (marathons and 1/2 marathons) I also wear good and quite expensive shoes. But I weight quite a bit (185 lbs) and pronate badly. This causes me to wear the outer edge of the heel quickly. I do wear motion control shoes but they only help so much. If you value your knees and ankles then you change your shoes often. A lighter runner may get 500 miles.

An the other hand, I can get 5K to 6K miles out of the road tires I use on my mountain bike.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priussoris @ Jun 18 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]464300[/snapback]</div>

Craig,

*VERY* cool! Home-built EV's are the best! Not only can you feel good about saving the planet, but you did it with something you made yourself.

I did a home-built EV conversion myself a few years ago. Here are the specs I can recall:
- 1990 Geo Metro
- Trojan deep cycle batteries (12 x 12v = 144v)
- 13 hp continuous electric motor
- curb weight 2200 lb
- top speed 85 mph
- range 15 miles
- total cost $6000

It makes us better then regular Prius drivers (SMUG ALERT )

I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoyed mine. And that your health improves.

I ended up selling mine to another local EV nut, and eventually got a Prius. Now I'm "offended" when the ICE kicks in (EV-mode switch is nice, but it doesn't really save gas.) Now I'm waiting for PHEV. If Toyota doesn't do it soon I'll have to do the HEV/PHEV conversion myself