The Ethanol Disaster

There seems to be a "growing" realization that upping corn ethanol to 10% (after MTBE phase out) has really come with a lot of negatives. Food for thought.

 

If you pardon the pun

 

We can make ethanol from field waste .

Total land management is important to provide for the food and feed crops, while balancing the amount of of harvest waste left on the field and what is used for biofuels. It is a complicated subject that simplifying doesn't help the discussion.

The most recent headline about ethanol being less green than gasoline, I am aware of, left out many details from the study. The study was only looking at corn stover(the harvest waste of corn) ethanol production. The less green was only in the short term, 5 years out from when we started making ethanol this way in mass. In 10 years, the carbon emissions dropped below that of gasoline. The paper assumed all the stover would be used for ethanol production. No rational farmer would allow this, and thus the final numbers the model got would likely be worse than what happens in practice.

 

Balanced government program, its hard to do.

Ethanol was all about pandering to iowa agribusiness (not family farmers) for presidential politics, according to gore who now regrets casting the tie braking vote. For bush it was about substituting away from oil, and iowa agribusiness for presidential politics, no fake environmental concern when bush increased the mandate. Unfortunately the cellulistic ethanol that bush favored, has technical problems right now. That's the stuff where we could go back to switch grass requiring little water or fertilizer or farm waste.

Absent this is what the ethanol and hydrogen lobby killed, which was methanol which can be made from bio means or because it is cheaper now, we use natural gas.

Common sense approach would be to
1) Mandate oxygenate only where it materially reduces pollution, I am not sure the percentage or where this is.
2) Continue to fund research on cellulistic ethanol from oil fees, but get rid of the mandate (no fee if you use the stuff though)
3) Remove tariff on imported sugar and ethanol
4) Pass an open fuel standard, allowing use of higher amounts of alcohols including methanol. We never know when oil will cost more
5) Continue to fund research into other bio fuels like bio diesel from algea, but get rid of the mandates.
6) Encourage conservation and substitution by adding a bigger oil tax

That would allow midwestern refineries to use corn from good crops, while gulf coast and california refineries could switch to less expensive for them methanol.

 

Here is one of my favorite ideas: Biomass to Electricity
Europe Finds Clean Energy in Trash, but U.S. Lags
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/science/earth/13trash.html?pagewanted=all

But Congress is looking for ways to have the ag community grow things that we then have to pay them for. If you go to Europe, same story except instead of corn its fields of Canola (actually rapeseed) for biodiesel all over the place. Luckily for the EU, 5% biodiesel probably makes a lot more eco-sense than 10% corn ethanol.

 

I've tested E85 in both our 2003 and 2010 Prius:

• Ethanol has is higher price spread between wholesale and retail price than gasoline.
  • Ethanol has an artificially high, price markup.
• Freezing temperatures often requires a second start but it runs fine after the first restart.
• A harmless check engine light will come on when running above E50.

Otherwise, E85 works just fine.

Bob Wilson

 

But for how long Bob?

 

for a long time. If the CEL annoy you, add a e85 converter box. It lengthens injection cycle (more fuel) and ups cold start enrichement. This is needed due to the low vapor pressure of ethanol. I run it for a year now incl. freezing temps, others have done so for years, also in the US. It also works on full thorttle at 100mph+ as long as you want. (I live in Germany). The Prius runs closed loop injection controlled by a wide band lambda sensor. The CEL comes on, if enrichment is beyond 30%. The engine still runs lambda 1 as intended by Toyota. The correction range streches beyond that. Once you up fueling by 25% or 30% with such a e85 box, the CEL will never show again. Car runs and starts as with fuel. Side effects are a tad more power, for me 26% increased fuel consumption and most important25% less fuel costs due to low local e85 prices. I pay 0.90€ per liter e85 vs 1.50€/l regular gas.

It won't starve the poor. If you donate all the corn to the 3rd world to eat, you bankrupt all their local farmers. Actually current subsidizing in the US and EU for farming is what starves people. It artificially reduced world market prices for food with our tax payer money. This reduces the margin, acually almost all of it, for farmers in the 3rd world. We can sell corn, wheat etc, for less than an african farmer can even prodoce it for, never mind sell. Unless you decide to feed the world. Free food for the poor. You'll destroy any economy that is left.


Otherwise I agree with many point. The real goal should be to make ethanol from waste, farming left overs etc.


iPad ?

 

Ethanol is NOT the work of the devil and it does NOT rot the insides of an engine designed to use it (E10).

Using higher concentrations in an engine NOT designed for that, however, is just a big gamble.
And I think promoting something like that in a public forum is irresponsible.

The process that makes ethanol from corn consumes only the sugar and leaves the protein pretty much intact and the "byproducts" are still used for food......mostly for livestock.

Converting 10% of the fuel use in the US to ethanol has been a BOON to farmers of all sizes and shapes.......allowing them to actually make a decent living without having to farm a million acres. THAT is long overdue.

And finally, what really IS the point of starting YET ANOTHER thread/discussion/argument about the merits of something that likely is here to stay ??? and with biased hype to boot ???

So, you want to get back to the REAL basics ??
The real evil here is the internal combustion engine.......and electricity.
Without those two things, we would still be "happily" living in cabins, growing food for our own families and not worrying about things that we have no control over.
Talking about the merits of that would be just about as productive and useful as talking about the "evils" of ethanol.

 

Think of the poor lobbyist if it weren't for causes like corn based fuel . . . what would we do with all those out of work special interest folks - give them productive jobs?!? ... what would we do with all that extra corn ... feed poor people?!? What would we do with a midwest water table NOT being pulled down hundreds of feet decade after decade - water non-GMO food stuff?!? Cmon now . . . That's jsut crazy talk .
.

 

If E85 were priced relative to energy content, I'd buy it all the time because of the improved vehicle performance. But the retail mark-up suggests some anti-competitive actions are in play.

Bob Wilson

 

I get my e85 in nearby france. They have no fuel tax on it . E85 in Germany is about 1.10€ a Liter due to fuel taxes, albeit reduced compared to regular gas.


iPad ?

 

is that because there's no road wear & tear from using it? Or because france politicians work for free when filling up on e85.
:rolleyes.

 

France wants to promote renewable fuels, hence no fuel tax on them. Germany was the same until a few years ago. But as welfare and social costs were raising, they added a fuel tax on renewable fuels. At the same time it was made mandatory to add 5% renewable fuels to both both petrol and diesel (rape seed oil based methy ester) So everybody uses ethanol as an additive, but there is hardly any e85 available.
The end result is that using e85 in France saves owners of e85 capable vehicles cash, a direct consumer incentive, while in Germany, pretty much not. In France, most folks buy small diesels. The no tax e85 is a financially equal or even cheaper alternative to the Diesel. Mind you that Diesel is cheaper due to lower taxes than petrol both in France and Germany. It is like 1.30€ per liter vs about 1.50€ per liter of petrol.


iPad ?

 

I don't understand your confusion. There is a government mandate that we use the stuff. In bad corn years, the mandate helped cause a food shortage. Of course there is something anti-competitive when the government madates you use a substance.

Why would it be priced according to energy content instead of the price of corn + transport + excess profits for ADM for their mandate?

Taxes are a strange thing if they are so different you country borders for them.

 

The Energy Information Administration provides wholesale and retail prices for gasoline and ethanol. The difference is the mark-up:

• $2.81-2.90/gal gasoline (RBOB) wholesale gas price 5/8/14
• $3.66/gal gasoline retail price 5/8/14
• $2.16/gal ethanol, CBOT Jun 5/8/14

So using partial fractions of E10 and E85 wholesale price should be:

• 90% * $2.81 + 10% * 2.16 ~= $2.745/gal E10
• 15% * $2.81 + 85% * 2.16 ~= $2.258/gal E85

Take the ratio of whole sale prices and then compare the ratio at the retail pump:

• $2.258 / $2.744 ~= 82% discount of E85 compared to gasoline

Go to your local gas station and take the ratio of E85/E10:

1. E85/E10 << 82% # Someone is supporting ethanol over gasoline retail sales
2. E85/E10 ~= 82% # Fair price
3. E85/E10 >> 82% # Someone is supporting gasoline over ethanol retail sales

Now it turns out the Midwest is starting to see E85 compete:


Details: E85 motor fuel is increasingly price-competitive with gasoline in parts of the Midwest - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Bob Wilson