The GUN Thread...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 10 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]253063[/snapback]</div>

Or you could just find a local shooting range, the fun of hunting without having to kill something.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 10 2006, 01:42 PM) [snapback]253057[/snapback]</div>

I have two guns in the house.
One, a 342 Winchester 70 XLR Featerweight Bolt Action Rifle which I won in a raffle back in the mid 80's for one dollar. Since then, it has sat in the back of my closet in its original box and has never been fired (as far as I know)).
The other is some kind of competition air gun which was given to me by someone deathly afraid of guns who inherited it with the house she purchased.

I have no ammo in the house, so, are they still deadly and I should get rid of them?

Reading about the pump action shotguns, I wish I had one of those instead. As it is now, any intruder in my house would have the barrel of an empty gun pointing at their head . . . if the sound of chambering a round with a pump action would make them pee their pants, I think that would be even more of a deterrent. . . . they wouldn't have to see my quivering trigger finger first.

 

Don't forget if you live, drive or come within 1000 feet of a school with a gun you're breaking the law. Hmmmmmm.

Wildkow

p.s. BTW if realize that you are violating this law and now wish to become a law abiding citizen, please contact me. I buy used guns especially rare vintage guns. :lol:

 

For what it's worth dept.

I have a friend 83 years old who admires guns, has at least a dozen at any one time in the house and currently favors pellet air pistols because of their accuracy and the higher degree of "fun" plinking down metal silhouette targets than punching holes in paper. We go shooting together fairly often - but I use his guns because I don't own any and don't plan to ever own any. I like the sport, but my philosophical distaste for a "tool" whose sole purpose (beyond target practice) is to maim or kill living organisms prevents me from doing any more than sharing target shooting with my friend.

Anyway, at 83, he's seen much of the world, and spent about 30 of those years as a private detective. He was in the merchant marine during WWII, and so has been attacked both in war and on the street.

I asked him, across all that time, how many times he'd drawn a firearm, let alone fired one, out of necessity.

Twice, he said.

The first time was aboard a ship during the war when a low flying Japanese Betty made a bomb run at his ship. He was closest to a deck mounted machine gun and so blasted away at the Betty as it approached while the ship made an evasive turn. As the Betty roared by, him firing at it continuously, he saw a piece fly off the airplane, and the flame of its dorsal gun stopped winking. He'll never know, but he thinks he got the gunner and damaged the Betty: it never turned back to renew its attack. That wasn't the only time his ship was attacked, but it was the only occasion where he was able to fire back personally.

The second time in his life he drew a weapon in earnest was at a rendesvous along with a sheriff to arrest a suspect. He was in attendance because he would be able to identify the suspect. At the rendesvous, the suspect was drunk and uncooperative, and reached into his truck for a rifle. My friend instantly drew his pistol and shouted for the suspect to drop the rifle while the sheriff dropped the handcuffs and scrabbled for his own gun. The suspect dropped his rifle, looked at my friend, and burst out laughing. In his haste drawing the pistol, my friend had drawn the pistol still sheathed in its holster! The suspect was cuffed and taken away without further trouble or incident.

My friend and I are at entirely opposite poles about the usefulness of guns. He wouldn't feel whole unless he's got an arsenal. He doesn't pack a gun, normally, but he wouldn't go through life without one. I, on the other hand, don't like them philosophically, and only indulge them to share target practice with my friend. But he and I DO agree on this much: the world is NOT a dangerous place, in general, and the fact that he's survived 83 years in war and as a private detetctive and was driven to brandish a weapon only twice in all that time lends a good deal of weight to that assumption.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ May 10 2006, 03:30 PM) [snapback]253046[/snapback]</div>

Doc:

Exactly. As I was raised with guns in the home, and perhaps it helped quite a bit to have responsible parents, to me they were just tools. Just like the table saw, the router, the torch, the chop-saw, the welder, the bandsaw, and the drill press in my Dad's workshop. I can take em or leave em.

Currently, I have no firearms and see no need to have any. If that should change, then I guess I'd have to apply for a FAC (Firearms Acquisition Certificate) from the RCMP and get a gun.

Know what my favorite weapon was in Utah? My old Ruger 10/22. I could plink away all afternoon for dirt cheap. Back then a box of 1000 rds of .22 was something like $5. The Winchester Black Talon .40 for my Glock 22 was that much for 20 rds.

j

 

I get amused by people that fear firearms. It borders on ignorance and the fear of the unknown. Most people do not understand without a primer being struck with a firing pin, all handguns and rifles are just hammers and clubs.

I have been around firearms in one form or another all my life. The latest addition to the collection was a M1911A1 in .45ACP I built with my dad from a box of parts, turning it into a target pistol. It took us five days of hand fitting to get it to make a eight shot group at twenty five yards measuring just an inch in diameter from edge to edge.

Most of my shooting is target based or practical shooting through IDPA. I would do three gun, yet getting my other rifles from Texas would not go over so well due to the PRK's rendition of gun regulations.

I run a greater risk of being plowed on my motorcycles on the I-5, than I do of being harmed by any gun of any kind.

 

I personally have nothing against guns or any other weaponry like katana etc. I have friends that are very passionate about their collections, use etc. I grew up in NYC, my parents never had guns nor anyone from my extended family did. I guess by sheer luck of exposure from the early age on, I've missed the opportunity to have proclivity for guns etc. I've noticed that my friends who do collect them originate from rural parts of the country where guns where just ubiquitous and were used frequently, either for hunting or protection.

I have a friend who owns jewelry places in Manhattan, he owns a gun and he carries it non-stop. Whenever we dine out together, I know he has one on him. He also took me few times for target practicing as he does it few times a year. Yes, I did shoot, but somehow the experience left me cold, it was just OK another thing to try as 'being there done that' slogan. My friend was somewhat impressed with my handling and shooting capabilities. I guess I went 3 times with him or so and afterwards I've declined it, as shooting no longer spurred interest in me. I guess it's one of these activities that doesn't promote additional adrenaline release to extend my personal excitement. Sailing on a very windy day in a dinghy or dirt biking does it for me instead.

I'm not intending to posses a gun unless the surrounding circumstances will force me to do so for my own protection. At the moment a concept of owning a gun is as much on my mind as new pair of socks. BY CHOICE not fear. And if someone thinks that he is a better man for having one and by calling me a pussy because I don't have one, so be it.

As far as 'FEAR' of guns goes. I do fear them when they in the hands of psychos. One day I went with bunch a friends in Adirondack region to private cabin on a secluded lake with huge private land for so called hunting escapade. There must have been 10-12 guys all geared up. Each guy individually was a fine fellow, talkative with super friendly disposition. All spoke of their hunting traditions passed from grandfather on etc. I've had a great time listening to many great hunting stories etc. When the evening came, we did set up a massive bonfire, all chaps started drinking, showing of their new gear and telling more stories. Within few hours I've noticed that few guys were badly drank but still toting the guns. FEAR of guns and consequently those who handle them suddenly came to my mind at that particular moment. I didn't know half of the people and seeing them handling, reloading etc instilled a moment of fearful excitement. Later on few guys decided to try shooting toward the lake, which lasted maybe 20 minutes or so. The following day few guys have commented about the idiocy of others from the same group for stripping all branches from the nearest tree next to the cabin and lake shore.

Wasn't there a recent tragedy with a former military guy shooting and killing a boy for crossing his front lawn? Such examples are where the fear of guns resonates and especially those who handle them. The debate about guns has to continue for the benefit of society at large not only those who are pro.

As far as hunting goes, I'm totally for survival and sustenance aspect of it. But completely against recreational facet of hunting as it's cruel and promotes selfishness and instantaneous gratification. Sorry guys, I'm for respect of creatures that happen to be in this wonderful 'garden of eden'. Shooting a bird for an exclamation of 'Yahoo I got it' alone, seems to be inhuman, that's my personal moralist take. Raising birds in cages and releasing them so someone can shoot them on it's first freedom seeking flight is abhorring.

 

I have a Glock 19. I got it about a year ago, took a safety class, joined the NRA and a local shooting range. My family had no history of gun use (I grew up on around NY where the rules are somewhat strict) and I never had much of an interest in them. A guy at work took me shooting one day and I thought I would give it a try. After all, why should Republicans be the only ones who are armed?

For some reason the sport didn't click with me. It could be because the gun club requires that you pass a pratical shooting-type class before you can use the pistol-friendly 'action range' and I never got around to doing that. So I'm limited to ranges where the closest target is 75 feet. Not fun - you have to use a spotting scope to see where you hit.

I could also be that some of the gun people I met came off as somewhat paranoid, but I guess that could be explained by half the population wanting to take their guns away from them.

My experiment with firearms has given me more of a feel for both sides of the gun argument and I now consider myself to be a Democrat who supports gun ownership. I think the Democratic party is killing itself with its anti-gun stance and should realize that ~50% of Americans own firearms and their attempts to control them is political suicide. Like others have said on this site, guns are a tool and are neither good or bad.

They are also neat machines - I think I enjoyed cleaning my Glock more than shooting it. B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dsunman @ May 11 2006, 08:04 AM) [snapback]253403[/snapback]</div>

He, that happens here too. A bunch of guys wait all year for the deer tag lottery, finally get their tag, go off on their big adventure, get shitfaced, and it ends in tragedy. I get really pissed off with these redneck semi-illiterate knuckle-draggers, as all they do is give ammunition - pardon the pun - to the rabid anti-gun movement.

I personally have gone hunting twice in my life, had good clean kills both times, but never went again. Just not my thing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jacaufie @ May 11 2006, 08:38 AM) [snapback]253413[/snapback]</div>

I had a Glock 22 for almost 7 years, which horrified my parents. They called it "that plastic toy gun." However, out of the box, it had better grouping than my pricey Colt Gold Cup National Match, and like you said, was a breeze to strip and clean.

If I ever purchase a handgun again, it would be a Glock. I respect good engineering.

 

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060511/D8HHIDO80.html

This makes me sad... do people actually eat polar bear? What does the phrase 'sports hunter' mean?
I eat meat, but I could never bring myself to shoot and kill an animal... and then eat said animal for dinner.
I think hunting for fun is disgusting... hunting to feed your family is not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(heliotropehead @ May 11 2006, 08:33 AM) [snapback]253483[/snapback]</div>

People preserve them and keep them as a "trophy" to decorate their home.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(heliotropehead @ May 11 2006, 10:33 AM) [snapback]253483[/snapback]</div>

If you eat meat, SOMEONE had to kill it. If you can't kill it, you shouldn't be eating it. I don't understand people who hunt just to put a trophy on the wall, but hunting to reduce the deer population (which is too high because their natural predators have been killed off) and then eating what you kill is different.

 

"I would even go as far and say the "right to bear arms" is flat out BS"

The obvious intention of the right to bear arms in the constitution (obvious from the preamble "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" was so that militias could be raised if necessary; this was before professional armies. There was no intention that every crazy individual who wanted to play with guns could and should do so.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 11 2006, 12:26 PM) [snapback]253523[/snapback]</div>

The "proof" is in the interpretation of the written preamble. Why did they write the words "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" if not to explain the context and purpose of the right to bear arms? You don't have to be a lawyer to interpret the meaning of the reference to "a well-regulated militia" Not only do they refer to a militia, but they specify a "well-regulated"one. This means that anyone bearing arms would be under a strictly controlled and well regulated organization. What other meaning could there be to this preamble?

 

... CAN'T be part of the "stricly controlled and well regulated organization"?, and 2.

1.how is a "stricly controlled and well regulated organization" "regulated" and placed into existence, who makes the rules so to speak?
This is irrelevant to the meaning of the preamble


2Who is to say, and how does it specifically exclude,: 1. a "crazy individual who wanted to play with guns",
Of course the meaning of the preamble does not depend on specific exclusions.

3. define "crazy" in the first place?
Forgive me for a little melodrama. I was thinking of all the "unregulated" and isolated individuals who supposedly have a right to bear arms. Many are crazy. What I mean is they are not a part of any organization that could exert control over them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(benighted @ May 10 2006, 10:13 AM) [snapback]252867[/snapback]</div>

You and my dad, two peas in a pod. Only time he would touch alcohol (beer) and a weapon was when he was cleaning it. He would clean before shooting, clean after shooting and sometimes just go to the closet and get one out to clean it for fun! He was a lifer in the Army served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam so he was around guns all the time. He gave me two guns in my life a Winchester .22 LR bolt action rifle and a early 60's Winchester Model 70, .270 which my father left me when he passed. I now have a Glock 19 w/15 & 17 round mag, and a Winchester Model 1300, 'Defender' pump action 12ga shotgun with 8 shot mag. Looks a lot like the one Squid shot.

Best time hunting I ever had was one of the first times with my dad I was 14 or 15 and it was just outside Bozeman, MT on Battleridge mountain in the Bridger range. Left home at 3am, went to Manny's for breakfast and then hiked all morning, most of it in the dark, to get in position on the ridge for the opening day. Then we sat and scoped the deer passing by, all being pushed up the mountain by the hunters from down below. We were looking down our scopes at the second buck of the morning and a good sized one when my dad declared that we would let that one go by also. I couldn't believe it! He very patiently pointed out to me "Son if we get one on the first day then your mother isn't going to let us go hunting anymore for the rest of the season and we’ll miss out on all of this." Well we missed out on a lot of deer that way but we got our money’s worth hunting them! My mom didn't think much of our skills. But that's why he was out there not so much for the deer or elk but for the fact that for a 2 or 3 day weekend we could get away into the mountains camping and hunting. Being young and dumb I pointed out to him that the whole reason we got up early to haul ourselves and gear up the mountain was to kill something. “We will†he said and about an hour later he aimed that same .270 I now have, down the ridgeline and at about 75-100 yards clipped the head off of a nice fat Mountain Grouse. Did I mention that he was a sharpshooter in the Army and that he was an instructor for ROTC shooting team at Montana State College? They got 6th in the nation once. I went down to "fetch" and clean the grouse and we roasted it on a makeshift spit for lunch. They taste just like chicken and it was the best lunch I have ever had to this day.
Later in the afternoon, after picking our teeth and dozing off a bit, the deer started moving again and I felt my father’s hand on the top of my head turning it back and to the left. Another big buck, looking over his shoulder away from us, was moving up the ridgeline and was almost in our camp before we had noticed! My dad slowly brought his weapon around and sighted through the scope, I didn’t know why cause the deer was only about 30 feet away! Well just as the buck turned back around to continue up the ridge towards us my dad at the top of his voice shouts, BLAM! :blink: Took the deer and I completely by surprise both of us jumping about two feet in the air, and I think we both lost our water! (peed ourselves) He didn't stop laughing about that for years. Thinking about that day still gives me a warm and fuzzy.

Wildkow