The GUN Thread...

There is a large segment of the population that shouldn't own guns. That being said, there isn't too much that can be done to stop them from owning guns. However, I'm in favor of background checks and waiting periods, simply because it slows the rate of armament.

BTW, Squid, if you take another look at your targets, you can see why handguns aren't as useful as a shotgun or a rifle, they are difficult to aim and fire consistently. You actually did quite well with the rifle, you were consistent off to one side; this is as good as hitting dead center because your scope can be adjusted just for you.

I think the 12 gauge pump action is a truly the best home defense firearm you can buy. They can't jam like automatic shotguns occasionally can, the sound is unmistakeable, and it's pretty hard to miss.

However, I think the best home defense WEAPON is this one:

http://www.taser.com/self_defense/index.htm

I can't believe they are illegal in some states! They are the ultimate "shoot first, ask questions later" weapon. I heard a story about a man who's home alarm company called him at the office. His alarm was going off, and the motion sensor had detected a person inside. He went home to check it out, and discovered that someone had climbed in through the kitchen window. Suddenly, he heard a noise upstairs. He grabbed his gun and went upstairs. He gave several warnings to the intruder; the intruder refused to respond. He started coming upstairs. He went into the master bedroom, and noticed some of his wife's jewelry was missing. He heard a noise in the closet. He demanded that the intruder come out of the closet at once. The intruder did not.

He then opened the closet door and fired the gun. The gun performed flawlessly; he put a few rounds into the intruder. He then saw the dead intruder slump over.

The body of his teenage daughter fell onto the floor. She had sneaked home from school to borrow some of her mother's jewelry.

The man is now very anti-gun.

I think we all like to say we wouldn't make the same mistake. But emotions run high and adrenalin rushes and there's no taking back the bullets or the buckshot.

My point? How would this same scenario play out with a Taser? The daughter would have been in some temporary pain, and maybe they would laugh about it later.

Guns continue to be more of threat to the owners than a defense. More people are shot with guns that were in the house than with guns from intruders. Having a gun does not make you safer.

Nate

 

My husband and I have been considering purchasing a taser for me to carry around when I'm out and alone. I've also been toying with the idea of us taking some sort of martial arts classes. Both, I think are safer forms of self defense.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 11 2006, 09:18 AM) [snapback]253518[/snapback]</div>

Well professional armies are recorded as far back as history is written. Also it was a professional, paid army that won us our freedom to write this document.

My 2 cents.

Wildkow

p.s. and here are some of the founding fathers 2 pence.. .

No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
---Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776.

A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
--- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them.
--- Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;
---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

To model our political system upon speculations of lasting tranquility, is to calculate on the weaker springs of the human character.
---Alexander Hamilton

 

"Guns continue to be more of threat to the owners than a defense"

Exactly what I said earlier, and there are statisics to back it up.

The best defensive weapon you can have at home is a cell phone. What with the government eavesdropping, it shouldn't take very long for the police to show up.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 11 2006, 11:18 AM) [snapback]253518[/snapback]</div>

I say we have the "right to bear arms" and the "right to arm bears"!!!!! :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(heliotropehead @ May 11 2006, 10:46 AM) [snapback]253580[/snapback]</div>

Both excellent ideas. Maybe more expensive and harder to obtain a Taser than a gun. I suggest the self-defense classes because that goes everywhere you go even in the shower when yer butt-naked :blink: and a stun-gun. A taser is a one shot deal a stun-gun can be used on multiple perverts, such as myself, and is much cheaper. May have to have a permit for those better check local regs.

Wildkow

p.s. Just think with the self-defense course that will be the last time your hubby tries to surprise you in the shower while your "butt-naked."

p.p.s. unless of course you like that sort of thing, that is being surprised "butt-naked" in the shower.

p.p.p.s which of course qualifies you as a pervert, that is enjoying being surprised "butt-naked" in the shower by your hubby.

p.p.p.p.s I like saying "butt-naked" :lol:

 

Countries with strict gun control have much lower homicide rates than the US.

Homicides In Canada And The United States

In Canada, the crimes classified as homicide include first-degree murder, second-degree murder, manslaughter and infanticide. Deaths caused by criminal negligence, suicide, accidental or justifiable homicide, are not included.

Although homicides represent less than 1% of all violent crimes in Canada, criminal justice agencies have been collecting homicide statistics since 1961 to monitor the extent and trends of such offences.

Police reported 554 homicides in Canada in 2001, eight more than 2000. Even with this increase in numbers of homicides, the rate remained stable for the third consecutive year at 1.8 homicides for every 100,000 population.

The Board frequently faces two questions with respect to homicide. The first is whether or not homicide incidence has increased since the abolition of capital punishment in 1976. In fact, homicides have declined since 1976. In 2001, there were 554 homicides in Canada, 151 lower than in 1975 (i.e. one year prior to the abolition of capital punishment). With respect to homicide rates, there were 1.8 homicides for every 100,000 population, in 2001. In 1975, there were about 2.5 homicides for every 100,000 population.

The second question deals with whether or not homicide rates are higher in Canada than they are in the United States, given the more extensive use of incarceration in the U.S., and the use of capital punishment in many U.S. jurisdictions. In reality, homicide rates are generally three to four times lower in Canada. The higher homicide rate in the United States is illustrated in Table 1 which compares rates in 1996 for seven Canadian and U.S. cities of similar size and general geographic location.
Homicide Rates In Comparable US And Canadian Cities, 2000
Municipal Police Force
Population ofMunicipal Area Homicide Rate per 100,00

Vancouver 2,048,823 2.0
Seattle 550,005 6.5

Calgary 952,960 1.6
Denver 529,978 6.0

Winnipeg 681,146 2.5
Minneapolis 364,049 13.7

Toronto 4,751,408 1.7
Chicago 2,866,191 21.9

Ottawa-Carleton 822,933 0.9
Washington DC 572,059 41.7

Montreal 3,480,342 2.0
Philadelphia 1,451,520 21.9

Halifax 355,996 2.2
Norfolk 232,632 18.9

Canada 30,750,087 1.8
United States 281,421,906 5.5

* Seven Canadian and US cities were selected to compare homicide rates. Cities were matched for similarity in size and geographical location.
* In all cases, the homicide rates of US cities were higher than their Canadian neighbors.
* In 2000, Canada's rate of incarceration was 118 per 100,000 total population.
* The US rate of incarceration was five to six times higher, yet American cities were much more dangerous than comparable Canadian cities.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 11 2006, 10:56 AM) [snapback]253586[/snapback]</div>

LOL :lol: That would have taken care of heliotropehead's problem with that Grizzle/Polar Bear Hybrid. What would you call that anyway a Prizzle Bear?

Wildkow

p.s. Could you imagine walking around a corner on a forest trail and discovering a Griz humping a Polar Bear?!? :blink:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 11 2006, 02:11 PM) [snapback]253595[/snapback]</div>

Only in Canada.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 11 2006, 10:49 AM) [snapback]253584[/snapback]</div>

Doctor's are the third leading cause of death but we don't get rid of them.

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/doctors_death.htm

Wildkow

p.s. OK the next time someone comes after you in your home and you have a choice between a cell phone and a gun the majority of people will choose the gun, and I don't have statistics to prove that because it just makes common sense.

 

I have quiet a few guns, but don't hunt. I certainly don't begrudge thos who hunt; everything in the wild dies hard-dear don't die of old age-something eats them alive. I guess a well placed bullet is a much better death. Now straight sport-trophy hunting of something you can't/won't eat just rubs me wrong, but once again, probably a better death than average.
The CS canned hunts Cheney and his cronies go on with baited birds etc are pure BS also!What is the point? Why not go down to Tyson's chicken factory and beat them with a golf club?They drive to within 50 feet of their shooting station, and walk maybe 100 yards all F_ _ _ing day?Hell, they ought to have teathered the hunters to their stations-less likely to shoot one another!!
I'm with Wildkow. If anyone has some old vintage arms they have no use for, I will generously take them off your hands-NO CHARGE-and I do home pickup anywhere in the USA (hey,I get good mpg, why not)
!!
Luck,Charlie
PS Just kidding of course. Unless you are brain dead in which case just send directions,I'll be right there. I still have Dillon 450, so I will figure a way to load your obsolete cartridge.


Later in the afternoon, after picking our teeth and dozing off a bit, the deer started moving again and I felt my father’s hand on the top of my head turning it back and to the left. Another big buck, looking over his shoulder away from us, was moving up the ridgeline and was almost in our camp before we had noticed! My dad slowly brought his weapon around and sighted through the scope, I didn’t know why cause the deer was only about 30 feet away! Well just as the buck turned back around to continue up the ridge towards us my dad at the top of his voice shouts, BLAM! :blink: Took the deer and I completely by surprise both of us jumping about two feet in the air, and I think we both lost our water! (peed ourselves) He didn't stop laughing about that for years. Thinking about that day still gives me a warm and fuzzy.

Wildkow
[/quote]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 11 2006, 11:14 AM) [snapback]253597[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I have always suspected that the anti gun folks are correct; fewer folks would be killed if we had some sort of universal gun control. I also have a suspicion that a gun in the house probably is more likely to kill a household member as it has to save a household member. They haven't "proved" it, but my general impression is that they are correct.

I suspect the antigun folks are correct, but
I DON'T CARE MUCH!! IF A FEW THOUSAND STRANGERS GET KILLED SO I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEFEND MYSELF IF I NEED TO-THEN SO BE IT!!
Having the means to defend myself is worth a lot of dead strangers. Same as driving a car is worth 40,000/yr dead strangers. No, I don't think that having a handgun is as important or as necessary as having a car.Yes, I know that I "probably" won't have to defend myself with a gun. Like I said, I don't care-the dead strangers vs potentially dead me favors me every time. Yes, I know that there is a slightly increased risk that the gun will be used against me or mine. I can manage that risk.
One of the very few benefits of the "war on terror" is that most folks understand that gun control is pretty unimportant next to a NUKE being detonated in one of our harbors. Gun control is strictly back burner now. Of course, the Republicans stand a fair chance of losing congress and the presidency(I'm going to hold my nose and vote against whichever Rep runs for president-I will vote for any Dem over any Rep.). The Dems are probably stupid enough to start pushing gun control again; I hope not, but...

On the constutitional issue-that "well regulated..." crap certainly muddied the water. It isn't a big concern of mine. Luck,Charlie

 

"Yes, I know that there is a slightly increased risk that the gun will be used against me or mine"

Read this article. This happened a few miles from my home. This happens all the time to people who keep guns in homes with children. By the way, the boy died. I hate guns, because they are synonomous with death.

HEADLINE: Boy clings to life after accidental shooting;
10-year-old shot himself while playing with gun belonging to his city cop dad, who won't face charges

BYLINE: BY GRAHAM RAYMAN. STAFF WRITER

BODY:


The 10-year-old son of a New York City police officer remained in extremely critical condition last night after accidentally shooting himself with his father's gun in his Massapequa home.

Nassau County police officials yesterday ruled the Sunday evening shooting accidental and said the child's father, Officer Joseph Dunne, 39, a 14-year veteran, will not face criminal charges.

Investigators with the New York City Police Department's Internal Affairs Bureau, meanwhile, were looking at whether to file administrative charges against Dunne for failing to secure his weapon, a .38-caliber revolver, as per police regulations. The gun was his off-duty weapon, police said.

Relatives and friends continued a vigil through the day for the boy, Tyler Dunne, at the pediatric intensive care unit at Nassau University Medical Center, where the fifth-grader was being treated.

Police officials said that Tyler found his father's gun in a basement closet at around 6:15 p.m. Sunday, and the weapon discharged while he was playing with it. Dunne, who is assigned to the Midtown North precinct, was reportedly at work when the accident took place.

The blinds were drawn at the family's home, which Dunne and his wife, Jill, bought in 1996, around the time that Tyler was born. A man at the house wearing a Midtown North sweatshirt said the family would have no comment.

In a neighborhood of sun-washed lawns, kids on bikes and basketball hoops, the tragedy left neighbors reeling. They said Dunne doted on his son and daughter, and was often seen coaching Tyler in baseball.

Across the street from the home, neighbor Mary Puglia said she saw paramedics remove the bandaged child on a stretcher from the home on Sunday night. "Something like that, I feel sorry for the mother and father," she said. "I remember once I told him, you should come over and play with my grandson John, and he said 'I'm not allowed to cross the street.'"

James Vannetter, a union carpenter polishing his Ford Cougar in the driveway, said he often saw Tyler paying catch with his dad on their cul-de-sac. "It's a shame, what happened," he said. "He was always interested in my car. He'd tell me it was too loud, and I would downshift to make it even louder."

A few blocks away at the Lockhart Elementary school, parents walked their children home at the end of what was described as a long, somber day at the school. Tyler sang in the chorus there and played sports, and it was hard to find someone who didn't at least know of him.

Maureen Flaherty, Massapequa school district superintendent, said grief counselors were brought early yesterday to the school, and each teacher was given the difficult task of informing his or her students that Tyler had been the victim of an accident. Some of the children did not know until they arrived at school in the morning.

"It's been an upsetting experience for everyone - the parents and the faculty," Flaherty said. "You have to tell the children the truth, that there was an accident and that the outcome was not promising."

She said the school principal, teachers and she herself went to the hospital Sunday night.

Some parents said the accident led them to reinforce the concept of gun safety with their kids. "It was a horrible tragedy," said one parent, who would not give her name. "It brought back the discussions I had with my kids. If you see a gun, don't touch the gun. Go find an adult."

GRAPHIC: Photo - Tyler Dunne, 10, is in extremely critical condition.

 

Let me reiterate that although guns don't make people safer, neither do overly restrictive gun control laws.

What I can't stand are the rednecks who blabber off about personal safety and are so fat they are about to keel over from a heart attack. Or they smoke. Or they don't wear their seatbelt. Or drive drunk, etc, etc. They just don't understand the concept of risk. They don't worry about the heart attack which is almost a certainty, but they insist that they be armed to the hilt in case someone breaks into the house (which has never happened in their neighborhood as far back as they can recall).

I really wonder which has a greater risk of death, jogging daily through the bad part of town unarmed, or sitting at home on the couch getting fat while polishing your revolver?

My guess is the latter.

Nate

There is one more thing about using a gun for home defense that many people don't consider. It is that their own humanity may kick in at just the wrong moment, the moment when it comes time to blow someone's face off with a shotgun. This can cause a person to pause for just a moment, a moment too long, long enough for the assailant to shoot first, even if you get the drop on them. Most people have an aversion to killing other people, even when it seems necessary, and that hesitation could cost your own life.

Of course, if you're a seasoned killer, have at it, but the rest of us might have an unforseen problem.

I believe a Taser takes that away that uncertainty, and gives you the personal freedom (emotionally) to fire at will.

Nate

 

Go to the right range in AZ and you can shoot full automatics (HK MP5, etc), with someone standing there to supervise and teach.