The Legend grows

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by etyler88, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. etyler88

    etyler88 etyler88

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  2. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Wow! 50mpg in a standard Accord! This guy leaves me in the dust!!! Interesting video. Thanks.

    Is the man (Wayne) in this photo pushing his car? Lol. Wouldn't it just be easier to walk to work without the car, instead of pushing a 2500lb car along with you?
    (yes, I have intentionally taken this out of context)
    Even still, I find this photo odd. The whole reason that automobiles were invented back in the late 1800s was so that we wouldn't have to walk. Are Wayne's shoes on the pavement? I rest my case.

    "It's not hypermiling if you have to get out of your car and push the damn thing." (laughing hysterically)

    My own hypermiling consists of gentle acceleration, predicting stoplights ahead of time, carrying my momentum through corners, and using gravity instead of the accelerator when possible. The reason I only get 38mpg is because I don't drive 25mph when others are passing me at 50mph. I accelerate up to traffic flow speed, albeit gradually. My best ever was 42mpg on one gallon in an empty tank. Funny thing is ... when I had thought I had run out, I still managed to go three more miles to get to the gas station. Maybe I still had some left.
     
  3. micheal

    micheal I feel pretty, oh so pretty.

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    I have read of Wayne's techniques for years (back even when he was anti-Prius) and never heard of a mention of pushing the car. Not sure why the picture has him pushing it.

    Some of his techniques that I recall are typical coasting as much as possible, carrying momentum, but also includes turning off the engine when at all possible (even on I think exit ramps and such). I want to see he got/gets almost 40 mpg out of a Ford Ranger. He used to have his mpg in his sig at Greenhybrid.com as xcel. I'm assuming he still does.
     
  4. prius530

    prius530 Junior Member

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    Does he mention how many times he has had to change the starter due to the number of times he has to restart the engine, how many accidents he gets in by losing his power steering/brakes driving with the engine off, all the traffic tickets or accidents he's gotten running red lights or exceeding the speed limit downhill to conserve momentum and save fuel, or all the frustrated people behind him wasting time and gas to pass him?

    I am not knocking what he is doing necessarily, but hypermiling has limits in urban driving. Sure if I had a rural driving route with no traffic these ideas would have merit. However, I think driving a hybrid normally and letting the car do most of the fuel saving by efficiently managing engine operation, braking and accelerating is the better choice by far and would decrease the risk of killing or injuring someone using some of the extreme techniques.
     
  5. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I live less than a couple miles from Wayne. I've been to his house and know exactly why he's pushing his car.

    Wayne's house is up on a hill in a sparsely populated subdivision. There's rarely traffic so he pushes his car across his parking deck, rolls down his driveway onto the side road where he has no stop signs for about half a mile.
     
  6. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    I couldn't have said that any better. That is why I am a semi-hypermiler, myself.


    I think it's awesome that he lives in a place where he can roll with gravity for half a mile. Pushing the car out of your garage only, makes a lot more sense. If he had been doing this on the road ... "anytime you get out of your car while on the road, you are putting your life in danger. Stay in the car!" -CHP tips & advice.
     
  7. micheal

    micheal I feel pretty, oh so pretty.

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    I don't know how many starters he had to to replace, accidents, etc, cause the only issue I have heard him mention was the starter. If you are concerned about it though, I suggest you go ask him. He is pretty easy to find IMO.

    As far as the rest of your comments, why is that people on PC automatically assume a hypermiler endangers traffic and/or people? Isn't driving faster than the posted speed limit dangerous and endangering other people? I don't attempt to use hypermiler techniques since my city traffic is often very dense. However, I do tend to anticipate/coast to stoplights, which invariably some drivers don't like (usually some teenager/young adult) in a large truck/SUV.

    But the thing I have noticed is that with the rare exception, aggressive driving does not result in less time to my destination in my city since the traffic lights generally discourage it. So I take umbrage that it is the Prius driver's fault for endangering others, when others are the ones that want to waste gas (and probably not save any time) by driving significantly over the speed limit or speeding up to stop lights. I (and I assume hypermilers like Wayne) are much more attentive to traffic conditions, since we are trying to anticipate traffic flow to maximize mileage and avoid stoppage.

    Makes sense. Probably way I've never seen mention of it specifically, since it would often be very specific to one's conditions, although I can recall him emphasizing using gravity to your advantage in parking garages, etc.
     
  8. PrettyinPrius

    PrettyinPrius Total Prius Newbie

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    I saw the video of this on CNN (that is where the picture is from). It reminded me of when I tried to turn off my car once while going down a hill, because I was almost out of gas, and wanted to make it to the gas station at the bottom (I was 18 at the time - I am now 39 - so this was many moons ago). The steering wheel locked, and I ended up crashing into a curb and hedge and blew a tire.

    I salute Wayne, and I think that insurance companies should give discounts for "safe and aware" driving courses. The courses could include some of the safer techniques that hypermiling promotes. But I think turning off your car while your driving it (even in you know not to pull the key out like I did), is not really safe, because aren't you more focused on turning the car on in the right moment then swerving or breaking if necessary to avoid another driver that is about to cause an accident?
     
  9. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    There are reasons there are laws on not driving in neutral or driving with the engine off. When the engine is off, you have no power steering, and limited brake boost. The law states, you must have 100% control of your vehicle at all times, this includes being in gear while in motion, and having all systems running while in motion. All it takes is one mishap while Mr. Hypermile is doing his thing and someone gets hurt, all that money he saved will be a nice package for the lawyers and lawsuits that would follow the mishap that occurs when he loses control doing his thing.

    Notice on the hybrids when the engine shuts off, it stays in gear, and you have full power for steering and braking, because without it, you can lose control. If you had to make a sudden maneuver to avoid something and your engine is off and your in neutral, your reaction time is severely degraded, your stopping distance is increased, and you have NO acceleration capabilities if you need them. Basically your screwed.
     
  10. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi acdii,

    That Accord has electric power steering, and vacumm brakes have at least one good push out of them before they run down the stored vacumm. Its also a manual transmission car, so no risk of damaging it if the engine is not turning.

    Wayne likes the Prius now, since the CBS thing, and the SHM mode discovery. So, he will probably get one. In which case he can do all his stuff legally.
     
  11. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    You seem to have missed the point of no power if he has to accelerate. It is ILLEGAL to be in motion with the car in neutral, period. Its great that he gets 50 MPG in a car, but do it legally and don't endanger others while doing so. I personally put that in the same category as drunk driving since he is NOT in complete control of the vehicle. I hold a Class A CDL license, have many many miles driving on highways and city streets and know that there are situations where someone like that can get into serious trouble due to not being in gear at all times. Turning off the engine also disables the ABS and any other computer controlled devices, including airbags.
     
  12. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi Acdii,

    You seem to have assumed he had no brakes or steering. That is wrong. And now your assuming he is coasting with the car in accessory mode for minutes at time. Where what he does is drop into accessory mode only until the engine dies, and then he puts the car into run (Ignition On, but the car does not start because it does not turn over) mode during the coast down a hill. So the airbags, abs and other 12 V powered devices are all runing. And since the decision to go into accessory mode is planned, and a short duration, my opinion is its a similar risk to the one of going 60 mph in a 55 mph zone. Which 95 percent of the CDL drivers around here are doing (or more) in vehicles that just do not brake very well. Not anything close to drunk driving.

    Yes there are situations where the presumtive rear endee can get out of a situation of a CDL driver going to fast for conditions. But that does not stop CDL drivers from rear ending tail-end charlies in a line of traffic either. And by the way, that happens a whole bunch up there in the Illinois/Wisconsin border area near Lake Michigan on US Rte 41 near where Wayne lives. If I lived up there I would be in mortal fear of the dozing or cell phone yacking CDL driver, not Wayne.
     
  13. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

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    Speaking of stoplights, if your local community is like mine, the number of stop signs and stoplights keeps climbing and climbing, creating more opportunities to waste gas. Soccermoms love to keep cars out of their neighborhoods by creating traffic obstacles on connecting roads which waste gas and taxpayers' dollars. The local politicians couldn't spell the word 'conservation' if they saw it on a blackboard.
     
  14. micheal

    micheal I feel pretty, oh so pretty.

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    Unfortunately, it seems this is something that continues to get little to no attention from local politicians. Supposedly, many of the light timings were modified over the last two years to allow for longer distances of uninhibited travel. However, some roads were actually made worse and there remains a number of lights that are offset and required speeding to make or require stopping every couple of blocks. Pretty sad (and frustrating) to think of all the gallons wasted at idle.
     
  15. timwalsh300

    timwalsh300 Member

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    We're not talking about slowing down to time stoplights and things like that. That stuff makes sense and I do it too. The people who honk their horn at us because they want to accelerate up to the red lights are morons.

    But check out some of the articles about Wayne and you'll learn about maneuvers like skidding around a 20 mph turn at 50 mph because his engine is off and he doesn't want to press the brake pedal.

    That's a whole different ballgame.

    Tim
     
  16. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Since when pushing car became part of hypermiling? It makes a great news story but I think pushing the car to get better MPG is out of the line. Extreme ways to achieve extreme results is nothing new. I can sum it up on one word. Compromise.

    There is already a proven way to achieve extreme MPG without compromise. HSD. Technology that makes your life and environment easier. We should be pushing for Hybrid Synergy Drive.... not pushing cars to get better mileage!

    I use EV mode to move my car out of garage. I can roll down the hill with engine off with a press of the button or a flick of my foot. That's the way of the future and it should be on the news!
     
  17. narf

    narf Active Member

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    Seems to me that Wayne is using techniques that are risky at best, and downright dangerous in general. I agree, you generally shouldn't be coasting in traffic with the engine off, drafting trucks, driving significantly slower than traffic in general. Hypermilers like him are one reason lots of people resent Priuses
     
  18. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi Narf,

    Wayne does not follow trucks closer than what is safe. The one time he did that, he was asked by a reporter to demonstrate how much the benefit was, and they were trying to get to Hybridfest for a social event in time. The result was he got worse mileage than he would have otherwise (95 versus 100 plus mpg).

    Drafing is not recommended on Cleanmpg.

    A few reporters have tried to pull fast one with their stuff. One west coast report I saw was downright slanderous regarding drafing. They showed a Saturn SL series drafting a truck, after interview Wayne in an Insight. The implication was that that was Wayne. When it was not even the same car, but to the untrained observer, it would have been difficult to realise that. Reminded me of the Annie Oakley thing, and the Valery Wilson affair. Wayne may actually have to start going after these guys in court if people like you seem to have started to believing the slanders.
     
  19. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    BINGO!

    BTW you can still draft a semi and still be in a safe zone, at least in the hybrids like the Prius and Camry. About 150' behind a flat bed works really good, plus you can see traffic in front and be prepared if you need to slow down. Thats about 1 1/2 seconds or so, keeps you in the draft but still in a safe zone. Getting so close that all you see is the dirt on the ICC is dangerous and should never be attempted.
     
  20. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Drafting safely is fine. Everybody do it knowingly or unconciously on the highway everyday.

    Exceeding max tire pressure, shutting the engine off on the highway, not using AC by wearing ice pack, etc... What's next? Use sauna to loose a couple of pound? Where do you draw the line?

    Most of the fuel saving that Wayne did are already done and automated safely by technology. Why does he need to reinvent the wheel by doing the hard way?
     
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