The Physics of Natural Football Deflation

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by SageBrush, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I know I was single handedly trying to help buying LEDs and stuff every week. I am hoping my local one survives as Sprint/Radio Shack.
     
  2. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Just another American Hero
     
  3. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    SB,

    I'm not going to doubt the physics of gasses - no disagreement with you on that.

    Before I go on, three aspects of Deflategate are murky for me. Both side are shades of grey rather than good vs. evil:
    1. The deafing sounds of die-hard Patriot homers vs. die-hard Patriot haters. It's like a 19th-century battle with all the gunpower smoke clouding the view. Both manipulate the facts to promote their POV, sometimes making a mockery of the facts.
    2. Has the known Patriots bending and breaking of rules won them games? At this point, I doubt it, but Spygate and Deflategate is very bad PR for their image.
    3. How does the Patriots cheating compare vs the other NFL teams? So far, I suspect the other 31 teams have plenty of skeletons in their closet and the difference in the degree of cheating is not that much. I would not be suprized if teams like the Ravens and Colts are using Deflategate as an opportunity to get the Patroits while pretending to care about the integrity of the game.
    I don't know if the investigation will be professional or compromised. NFL commish Roger Goodell is under pressure to get tough to make up for past screw up. But then the owner that's his most valuable ally at his $44M a year job is Patriot's Robert Kraft.

    I like the Patriots, but I don't like how they push the rules. When there was irrefutable evidence against Lance Armstrong, I had no choice to accept he was not the champion he once seemed. I'm simply waiting to see if that kind of evidence will be found against New England.
     
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  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Armstrong is every bit the champion he has always been, but he was caught cheating; and more importantly, the years of aggressive lying and litigation against his accusers placed him in a particularly unflattering light compared to his PED ingesting and injecting colleagues and competitors.

    Compare him to Floyd Landis, who lied and used his ' noble christian' persona to try and protect his TDF win, but when confronted by reasonable proof he stopped the charade, told the truth, and then disappeared into the sunset.
     
    #164 SageBrush, Feb 8, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2015
  5. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ....are we ready? expecting results soon from the NFL investigation, reportedly being held for after the NFL draft
     
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    My guess: the NFL will fine New England because they can, they love collecting fines, and suits are not good at saying "we are idiots and we are sorry."

    The real story, which is already out, is that NE did not lose draft picks, which is tantamount to being declared innocent.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm most interested in the dynamic between kraft and goodell. funny thing is, brady tweeted yesterday a pic of the letter he just got from the nfl asking him to appear at Super Bowl 50.
     
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    .... pretty much guaranteed the NFL itself is not going to look too good re: their own practices on football prep
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    they already had to fire their own guy who got caught at the same game stealing game balls and auctioning them off.
     
  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    what's the reaction?
    I have not learned much new that I wanted to hear, but seems clear we are talking simple needle deflation. Post #146 above I show calc how long takes (1-sec) and previously I saw a news channel guy did a whole bag of 12 balls in about 30-40 secs or so.
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Nothing proved. In the lawyer's opinion, needle deflation more likely than not.

    Turn that around, and it reads this way:
    Natural deflation not excluded;
    No smoking gun, e.g. a confession
     
  12. ursle

    ursle Gas miser

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    What, changed the inflation ritual in 06, and cheated every play of every game since and a slap on the wrist, oh, right, must be the money involved
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the problem is, this is a rule the league never took seriously. a lot of wink, wink, nod, nod. check a few balls before the game and give them back to the team.

    but now, it's a political hot potato, the league (roger goodell) having fumbled so many much more important issues over the last few years.
     
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  14. amm0bob

    amm0bob Permanently Junior...

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  15. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    :mad::mad::mad:

    I tire of the drivel the past three months or so that the Patriots are the worst cheats ever....deflated footballs just don't stack up to steroid abuse, the 1919 BlackSox Scandal, etc.

    Anyone see something inconsistent in Ray Rice suspended two games for beating his future wife unconscious on film, but Tom Brady is suspended four games "it's more probable than not" he knew about the ball boys underinflating? Even if he was in on it? Blind Dallas Outlaws homers care more about 1-2 PSI than Josh Brent was not just .8, but 2.1 when he killed his teammate at 110 mph drunk and they want him back on the team! :mad:

    BTW, Hernandez was immediately cut as soon as murder charges were filled...what more can a team do?

    My points:
    1. Patriots hate is a lot like Prius hate....a lot of people hate it, then throw any kind of crap on the wall, hoping it will stick. At sports forums, the spitting matches are worse than here for both the lack of moderation and if you are a homer it's OK to be an absolute blithering idiot condoning anything you team does while hating other teams for maybe no reason at all.
    2. It's not nearly the worst sports scandal ever
    3. Why aren't former Patriots detailing this alleged systematic cheating like Lance's teamates did? Ted Wells had three months to do that in his report that cost $5M.
    4. Check out Your Team Cheats - The Definitive Guide to NFL Cheating Don't expect everything at that site to be accepted, but it should be clear all pro teams cheat and do so in ways worse than deflated footballs.
     
  16. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    If you think it's tiring to an NFL fan, you ought to hear it from the perspective of an NFL agnostic. :rolleyes:

    Personally?
    I don't think that Brady will be on a beans and rice diet if he gets suspended for the four games.....and it seems that it couldn't have happened to a more appropriate QB.

    Patriot hate is NOTHING like Prius hate.
    People honestly hate THE PATs, and just roll their eyes at the fans.
    With Prius hate it's a little different, because people who take notice of Priuses don't hate the car. ;)
     
  17. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    You have not been on sports forums.

    Does the punishment fit the crime? NO....twice as long as Ray Rice for beating his wife.

    Goodell has been consistently inconsistent in punishment, frankly influnced by public opinion more than the merits of the incident.
     
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    By the lawyer's report, there is up to a 49% chance that Brady did nothing wrong or illegal.
    Kicking Brady off the team for four games towards the end of his career is one hell of a punishment for uncertainty.

    My opinion: Goodell is an idiot and should be fired.
    I would however like to read the physicist's take on the deflation. I'm willing to bet the conclusion was "could have been natural deflation, but natural cannot be proven or disproven."
     
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  19. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    My interest was mainly how'd they do it, scientitifically?
    Was there some fancy way such as filling balls in hot humid room? Or with some helium? But at some point it became obvious we are probably just talking about sticking a inflation needle in the ball. Also it became clear the NFL protocol with ball preparation is weak.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think the report said that it is not possible to replicate game conditions, so they can only judge by estimated temperature change.
     
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