The Potential Pitfalls of Electric Cars

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Once complete, Tesla expects the Gigafactory to be the biggest building in the world – and entirely powered by renewable energy sources, with the goal of achieving net zero energy.
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Which sounds like the perfect solution for you! It is always great to see someone find a car that works so well for them

 

That's a horribly misleading statement because it doesn't include any of the energy cost of the supply chain, the construction of the energy system for the building (which does include a grid connection hence "net") and the energy cost of transportation out of the factory which is substantial because the cargo is quite heavy.

 

Perhaps, but the only technology that exists in small sizes that has both high power-density and high energy-density is the turbine engine (and it has modest thermal efficiency and other undesirable characteristics). ICE's have high energy density but low power density and BEVs have high power density but low energy density.

Still waiting for an all-electric system that has both. The only one that does isn't practical in small sizes (portable nuclear fission like on naval vessels).

 

They also don’t include the transportation costs of employees getting themselves to lunch, nor the energy costs and loss of money of all the short sellers, or.... Just how far do you want to stretch what power a factory uses?

 

The same way everyone else does and the same way as the numbers I quoted earlier - life cycle energy cost.

 

compared to oil?

 

Nobody includes those things in the definition of “energy use” or “net zero”.
With houses, the term “carbon neutral” has been used to describe a house that produces enough energy to offset both its energy use and embodied energy. But even there, they don’t try to include transportation costs.

 

No, that's apples (energy storage) to oranges (primary energy source).

 

you're saying solar power and oil cannot be compared?

 

For manufacturing, everyone does.

When we do this for wind energy, we include the source materials, manufacturing, transportation, erection, operations and maintenance, and decommissioning.

 

I'm saying battery manufacturing and oil cannot be compared.

 

gotcha, but why would we only compare one part of the process?

 

We wouldn't - that's my complaint. We have to include the entire process, including materials, manufacturing, transportation, etc. "Cradle to grave", so to speak.

 

agreed. we must start with the search for oil all the way through to gasoline powered cars vs solar power manufacturing throughout electric powered cars.

then debate the pros and cons of each on various aspects of life.

 

Or the energy to build the home. Or the energy to feed the people who live in the home ... the list goes on.

The more important point though is that Lee is barging through an open barn door. Battery life cycle costs are obviously not zero, any more than PV life cycle is zero. A large fraction of the chain will however be supplied by PV and wind which is why OP's energy comparison is worthless. This discussion should not ignore the clean energy production that the homeowner, or by extension Tesla, has brought to the equation. You and I have paid for and use PV so we get the value that Tesla brings to the environmental equation. And in the future Tesla will recycle batteries, also using clean energy.

 

Got any evidence of that?

Wind and solar powered mining trucks, heavy transportation, ships and processing plants supplied by solar and wind? Do you realize some of these things need process heat which is not economical (at all) to supply with electricity (like by a factor of 5)?

 

no oil tankers coming acrost the ocean, or trucks delivering gasoline to stations?

 

Yes. The Gigafactory

 

So, no.