The president's warmongering remarks on the Iranian threat suggest he is psychotic.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mingoglia @ Oct 27 2007, 12:50 AM) [snapback]531051[/snapback]</div>

No its not and You might as well get used to it. I got torn to pieces once for trying to have a discussion. You think I had spit on Che's grave or something. Learned my lesson! :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Oct 29 2007, 10:18 PM) [snapback]532316[/snapback]</div>

George Santayana, an author in the early 1900's, said 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' Its been adapted and restated in many ways, including the popular "Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it." William Shirer made Santayana's version even more common by including it in his 1959 book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich".

The underlying prejudice, nationalism and bigotry that caused European wars is still there, barely under the surface. The history of Europe is that they periodically have pretty horrible wars, and some of the worst crimes against humanity happen when they are dealing with their own people. I'm always optimistic that Man will rise above his base nature, but not surprised when he fails to do so.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Oct 31 2007, 07:55 PM) [snapback]533234[/snapback]</div>

I thought that is what you meant but I did not want to assume.

So are you saying that because they have had a dark past that we should not look to them for ideas for the future? That does not make much sense. You know many great feats of science were attained by europeans right? Did you know that they are also leading the way in sustainability? That they have a better standard of living than us is a lot of cases? I just don't understand your logic here and usually you are a pretty logical guy.

I would also argue that we suffer from similar problems of predjudice, bigotry, and especially nationalism, and wars. We are also being torn apart from within because of worldview differences. I can relate much better to some other countries citizens than I can my own country's midwest population. :huh:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 1 2007, 07:33 AM) [snapback]533304[/snapback]</div>

I see we are getting into an EU discussion I find it interesting that the EU is trying to force a new "constitution" down the throats of its citizens via governmental approval instead of the popular vote - which they lost the other year - so much for wanting to emulate that way of big brotherism.

I also think that the EU is interesting in that they are by and large moving towards Conservatism - GB, France, Germany all now with new governments since 9/11 - that are friendly towards the US. They have done that for a reason - the people see what is happening to their way of life and culture - and they voted for a change. They are lowering their taxes, they are trying to incorporate my business friendly laws, they are trying to gain control of the immigration issues which are HUGE problems for them (it is a major source of their continued living standards).

That all being said, and being a descendant of recent European immigrants - there is little there in terms of culture that i would want here that we already do not have. Europe has a very dark RECENT past and PRESENT (in that it has done little if anything to help other countries or cultures fighting for freedom or democracy - and in fact is a source of continued aid to terror nations - Iran, the food for oil scandal, etc).

Anyhow. Psychotic? How about a presidential candidate who sees UFO's?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 1 2007, 07:38 AM) [snapback]533376[/snapback]</div>

You could have just described the U.S. except that instead of not doing anything in regards to other countries we meddle and disrupt them, which is worse?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 1 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]533377[/snapback]</div>

I obviously think that what we do if by in large the correct thing - to promote liberty, freedom, individual rights for all - including our huge sacrifices made for Europeans last century - in fact we are still there - still sacrificing for them - when will they stop being dependent on us - i wonder when we can bring all our troops home from there - it has been quite a long time.....

imagine if europe had meddled with hitler in the early or middle 1930's - or even stood up to him in 1938???

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Nov 1 2007, 10:30 AM) [snapback]533390[/snapback]</div>

Imagine if Bush's grandfather Prescott ,hadnt been Hitlers main financier.