The Prius C might not see another generation because ...

Discussion in 'Prius c Main Forum' started by DKTVAV, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:33 AM.

  1. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Crosstrek is nothing but 5dr Impreza with a lifted suspension. When I test drove Subaru recently, I was very disappointed on Crosstrek. For the price difference, 5dr Impreza is much better buy, but people pays for the looks of SUV.
     
  2. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Active Member

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    Agreed, it's nothing but a lifted Impreza, but that makes it a pretty capable car. Having owned a few Subarus I can confidently say that the extra ground clearance was more useful than the AWD. If I had to choose between those features I'd go for the lift first.
     
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Really? In what situation you would rather have lifted suspension than AWD. I was looking for a second car after our AWD Sienna was decommissioned. I wanted AWD for winter drive. We do get snow, but our roads are very well plowed, so deep snow does not happen often. On the other hand, slick icy surface is regular occurrence even after plow. Thus I valued AWD above everything.
     
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Active Member

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    Don't get me wrong- I appreciate the AWD provided by my Subarus. But after 12 winters and over 130k miles on a few of them, I've come to realize that it isn't as big of a deal as most people make it out to be. Remember, every car is already all-wheel-stop- a Subaru is just better at getting going again afterwards.

    The extra ground clearance helps considerably on the rough beach road leading to ye olde family beach cottage. Normal cars scrape their bellies on it, a Prius would really hang up. My Subies just barely clear over.

    Where winter weather is concerned, a FWD car wearing premium snow tires will always beat out an AWD car on all-seasons. Good snow tires on the AWD car will be better still- but I no longer live in Alaska. I don't need to be equipped for travel in the absolute worst of conditions- smarter to be off the road then anyway.

    To focus it a bit: Ground clearance has proven itself to be useful every summer in Massachusetts.

    Premium snow tires have proven themselves to be extremely useful every single winter in the mid-atlantic/NY/NE area.

    AWD has proven to be very occasionally useful year round, and very expensive (also year round) in terms of fuel economy and elevated maintenance costs.
     
    #24 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Aug 9, 2018 at 11:05 AM
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018 at 11:26 AM
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  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Aha, yes for unpaved rough road.;) Our driving is almost exclusively on paved road. No more off road fun for me. I have not purchased our second car yet, but my current short list is Subaru Impreza (5dr), Subaru Outback, Toyota Rav4 hybrid and Mazda CX5. I may include Honda CRV into this as well, but have not test driven it. If the Rav4 hybrid had mpg similar to Prius C, it would be the winner. I just can't' justify buying another car with ~30 mpg at best for only limited use for winter drive.
     
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Active Member

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    I've seriously considered the idea of a second prius c with a lift kit and big tires once the time comes to retire our Outback. I even found a 4x4 shop that sells the right parts to pull this off.

    It wouldn't score as many MPG as a stock one, but it sure wouldn't be that bad.

    But it sounds like the c will be gone from these shores before I'm done with the Subie, so who knows. I like Subarus overall, but none of the current models really appeal to me the way my last two did, so I'm motivated to branch out.
     
  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Wow....
    Has it really been sis years since the "little Hybrid that could" entered the market???

    How time flies.
    I was commenting in another thread that Toyota hybrids peaked in 2012 at about a quarter of a million units for the Prius family, but since then the tide has receded somewhat......like by about half.
    Gas is cheaper. Cars are getting better mileage, and the eco-buyers are trying to justify BEVs and PHEVs instead of the quaint old fashioned wireless hybrids.
    Still....I find myself almost saddened by the fact that the Priussy might go the way of the Apatosaurus.

    I remember being super-exited when the c was being whispered about back in 2011!!!
    Think about it.....
    A Prius drive train in a Yaris chassis!!
    I figured at the time that if they didn't ugly it up too much that Toyota would have a 132 BHP Yaris that got pretty good mileage.....something that could have been pretty fun to drive!!!!

    Little did I know.....
    We instead got a 3/4 scale Prius, with 3/4 of it's performance at 5/6 of it's price!
    I thought at the time that they also goofed on the styling, not knowing what lay in store for me in 2016 with the rest of the Prius Family!!!

    One can at least say that the 2018 Prius C is, and has been, the best looking Prius for a few years now, but where economics or ecologics are concerned it's pretty hard to make a case for buying a c-type.
    You can get a Yaris for nearly $6,000 cheaper (The c-type is basically a hybridized Yaris) and if you're into squeezing nickles - and there are econo-hatches out there that are even cheaper. If you're into the not burning petrol thing it's extremely hard not to consider ponying up an extra thou or two for an Ioniq or a full grown Prius.

    People have been whispering about the death of the Priussy for nearly as long as they've been waiting for a sub-$50,000 Tesla, and for now.....Toyota seems to be hedging it's bets at least until 2019 so it seems that the 'Little Hybrid That Could' still WILL for at least another model year.....
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Active Member

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    For us the major selling point was a Yaris-sized car with a way smoother drivetrain and improved MPG. Having it packaged with "classic" controls (twist key & PRNDL shifter on the floor) were fantastic bonuses, and world-car features such as the trivial-to-upgrade double-DIN head unit was the icing on the cake. We just couldn't find a better car (any brand or powerplant) in the ≤100" wheelbase class.

    We are on track to eventually save 2/3 of the price premium over the Yaris by fuel savings, and I'll cheerfully write off the last 1/3 to a better driving experience from that smooth HSD transmission.

    It's a world car. Toyota sells it everywhere else and doesn't have to go far out of their way to make it legal to sell in the USA. I'm sure that's the only reason it has survived this long given the low sales numbers.
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Lapsed Cargo Cultist

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    Besides the c's lower weight: compact dimensions, and (I'd assume) a tight turning radius are selling points. Our 2010 (CDN) Prius, Touring model with 17" rims, has larger turning radius than 15" models, a bit of a boat in parking lots and underground garages. Invariably architects design to the bare minimum parking lot dimensions these days. :mad:
     
  10. Dimitrij

    Dimitrij Member

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    I have noticed that the Toyota mpg ratings for Prius C have dropped in the past 3 years … when I looked at them first (must have been early 2015), it was rated @ 52 or 53 city and 50-ish highway. Now it's more like 48 and 43, which is 10 % down overall.
    I have no idea why the drop. On Fuelly, the average reported mpg is 48.

    The C is too small for the average US driver, but I believe it found itself somewhat of a niche in urban/suburban use, so I hope Toyota won't pull a plug on it in the US.
     
  11. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Member

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    Trying to be more realistic I suspect.
    A couple of car makers have been REALLY embarrassed when caught "fudging" the numbers or not doing the testing right.
     
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Active Member

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    The last few waves of environmentally-minded commuters wanted really efficient cars.

    The latest wave skipped over that and moved to a city with a good subway system- they don't want to own cars at all, and I can't really blame them.
     
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  13. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Fun Fact:
    The "C' in Priussy stands for city.
    It wasn't really designed with highway commuting in mind, which is why the original model's EPA numbers (in 2012) were a then eye-popping 53/46mpg. The C-type came out back when fuel price spikes were a thing and also back before the latest wave of PHEVs....so people concentrated on the 53 stamped on the window sticker without really thinking very much about the word CITY or the phrase 'actual mileage may vary.'

    It did.

    In 2016 the Environmental Protection Agency regunculated the way it determines window-sticker gas mileage in an effort to better reflect real-world mileage, (according to the agency and automakers) and the folks in Aichi took that opportunity to adjust their numbers from 53/46 to 48/43.
    By comparison the Corolla went from 30/43 to 30/40.

    Still...as pointed out above, the pint-sized hybrid has qualities that have always been worth the extra $3k over a Corolla to enough people to keep the C off of the list of extinct car species.....if not completely out of the 'endangered' category, and for Toyota.....that's enough.
    The Littlest Hybrid is also (still, for now) the cheapest hybrid.
    It's seen by some as a step above a Yaris or even a Corolla and it does get about 10mpg better gas mileage so people who wait in line at Costco to save $0.05 a gallon for gas can more....ah.....fuelly appreciate the Priussy lifestyle....and for them, THAT's enough.
    In the motorcycle community there a saying that you have to ride YOUR ride, and while the C-type isn't exactly mine...their drivers probably are not into what the blowhards have to say about their cars or they would be making payments on flashier rides.

    That's enough for ME to kinda hope that Toyota keeps the Priussy around for a little while longer. ;)


    'YMMV'
     
  14. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Active Member

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    Honestly, if the 2018 'refresh' to the Yaris hatch had included a many-speed or CVT transmission and IIHS crash scores equal to the c, we would have bought that instead.
     
  15. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I could easily speculate and see Toyota discontinue the Prius c.

    I just hope not.

    Because what I like about the Prius c "concept" is the "Hybrid for the Masses" idea. In just the past decade, I've watched regular Prius, become more expensive. From just when I bought my Prius to today, the buy in, for a new Prius has increased significantly. I don't think I could afford to get into a "new" standard Prius.

    It might be pipe dream thinking but I would wish at least two things. One that Prius c, could be more fuel efficient. As the smallest Prius, sub-compact size, it's a hard sell given the MPG is nearly equal to the standard Prius. For most people if money is not an issue, on paper a regular Prius makes more sense.

    Secondly, that Toyota could actually lower the price.
    I read a lot of posts here, from a vast audience of Hybrid Owners and want to be Hybrid owners, who for whatever reason, at the moment simply do not have the financial means to buy a "new" Prius. That forces them into various levels of used Prius ownership. Which is fine.

    But I think the problem is, The Prius c, is really still too expensive to reach this audience, but conversely not desirable in comparison to the regular Prius- to those that can afford it.

    Honda has tried it, and more or less failed.
    Toyota IS trying it, and I'd hate to see them fail.
    And that is the Hybrid for the masses concept. The peoples Hybrid.

    IMO...the Prius family is disintegrating. Dysfunctional maybe from inception, with the Prius v, getting slightly poorer MPG, while only offering slightly more cargo space, couldn't really grasp a buying audience.
    Now the Prius c, falling into a chasm of being only slightly less expensive to purchase, but being significantly smaller. Is there a great enough audience to keep it alive?

    I would hope so, almost just from a conceptual, philosophical standpoint. On paper? It would be hard to defend to a company that has to make decisions based on cost and profit returns.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we have 3 'thirtysomething' children. oldest lives in manhattan and doesn't own a vehicle. (her boyfriend keeps his 3 series in her buildings parking garage though.

    middle child lives on the border of boston outskirts and has off street parking and my old 2008 prius which she drives to the catskills every weekend.

    youngest lives in the country and drives a rav4 which is coming off lease. he's talking about a jeep or pick up. doesn't give a hoot about gas prices or the environment beyond gov regs.
    his wife drives a nissan rogue.

    they all uber when convenient.

    this is how i perceive the next generations, but it is just anecdotal.
     
  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    3 years ago, when I was looking for a new hybrid, I was set to purchase the least expensive hybrid on market, that was Prius C. I called, e-mailed and negotiated price on Prius C with several Toyota dealers. In the end, I purchased regular Prius Two, as it turned out with all the incentives and discount, the price on regular Prius was LESS than the price I negotiated on Prius C. It made no sense to buy smaller less equipped and just equally efficient Prius C for more money.
     
  18. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Similar experience when I purchased my 2013 Prius Two. At that time, the Toyota dealership near me had a HUGE shipment of Prius II. They were selling them all at a "base" price. 20-30 on the lot.
    When I priced out a Prius c, equipped with options I wanted, the price difference was so minimal as to make no difference at all, in relationship to the final decision.
    I LIKE smaller vehicles, but just felt like given the price? I would of been stupid to NOT get the Prius II at the time.
    Now with a bigger gap between "c" and regular/prime Prius, that reality doesn't exist anymore.
     
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  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    3 years later, I traded-in the Prius Two with Prius Prime with MSRP $30K. But the final price of PRIME after all incentives and tax credit was below $20K, which is less than what I paid for Prius Two 3 years ago. Go figure, why Prius C isn't selling.
     
  20. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Active Member

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    They could either solve or enhance the identity crisis by tuning the c for performance and packaging it as the Prius Sport.

    Let it get the same MPG it gets now... if driven a certain way

    or be super fun when not driven that way.

    I don't know how they could do that for the same price though.
     
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