1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

The reason CARB exists

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,132
    15,392
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Source: KILLCARB.ORG -

    I am not a fan of the CARB hydrogen fuel cell mistake nor their roll-over in 2000 that killed the EV1. Regardless, they seem to do more good than harm ... considering the alternatives.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,751
    48,964
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    agreed.
    like any political machine, you're better off with than without. the evil doers are lurking in the shadows just waiting for their chance :cautious:
     
  3. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,580
    1,601
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,749
    5,243
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Complaints without suggestions don't accomplish anything.
     
  5. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,580
    1,601
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    I suggest we oppose a constitutional convention, I rather like that CARB can stick it to the man, even if they are also misguided in their own way.

    Both cars I own would have never existed if it weren’t for carb so there is that.
     
    bisco likes this.
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,751
    48,964
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    that should read 'koch'

    edit: sorry, there were two in 2017
     
  7. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    575
    595
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Since it needs reminding, this is the reason CARB exists:
    And lest anyone says otherwise, CARB has been successful in reducing things like ozone:

    [​IMG]
     
    tochatihu, bwilson4web and john1701a like this.
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Go here

    ((corrected in later post))

    Depending on parameters selected you may find that ozone has not improved much since end of charts@7.
     
    #8 tochatihu, Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    noonm likes this.
  9. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,854
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Link appears dead.

    But surely you don't assume population has been stagnate? Even more people, same relatively good level of low smog for an extremely densely populated area.

    And of course you always run up to diminishing returns. Making cars go from 30mpg to 40mpg is awesome but not nearly as awesome as going from 20mpg to 30mpg.
     
    tochatihu likes this.
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    "But surely you don't assume population has been stagnate?" @9. This factor is surely important for any estimation of harm. I am not aware of any published study combining air-quality improvements in US areas with increasing numbers of lungs.

    Let us hope that workers in this field are as creative as toaster, and do it.

    ==
    There is probably always room for expositions on topic of fuel economy and fleet size. If only to remind folks that miles per gallon is non linear as stated @9.
     
  12. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    575
    595
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Absolutely true, as we're probably reaching the limits of pollution control on gassers. We'll likely see significant further reductions in ozone only if the BEV/FCEV start becoming a significant % of the vehicles on the road in CA.
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Ozone photochemistry in Calif central valley is much influenced by ag, including messy diesels. Those that are off-road vehicles are lightly regulated as I understand it.
     
  14. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    575
    595
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Good point. That's also consistent with the inland areas of SoCal having worse ozone than the coasts:

    [​IMG]

    For ozone in particular, hotter temperatures due to climate change also make it worse: