There must be a way to make the fogs come on ONLY w/low beams

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by ES44AC, Sep 3, 2020.

  1. ES44AC

    ES44AC C.A.U.S

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    I know you all are tired of my relentless postings about these blessed fog lights on my 2011. Trust me I am as tired as you all are, but for different reasons.

    The way the lights work now they are completely independent of the high or low beam headlights.IE: They can be ON no matter what headlight choice you've made.

    UNACCEPTABLE for my state inspection, they must come on only when the low beams are on, other than that they must be off.

    I have searched high and low to find a spot where I can get 12v from the low beam circuit under the hood and can't find one. Of all the members in this forum I'd think someone would have a solution, yet none have appeared! I also don't think that Pa. is the only state with the requirement I have called out. If I could get access to the low beam bulb socket I'd solder a wire to it and use that to get the 12v I need. But of course that's not possible. The Prius has 12lbs of 'stuff' in a 6lb box under the hood as we all know.

    So how did you get YOUR fogs to come on only with the low beams?? Even if the answer is a temporary solution that's fine. It only has to work for about 1 hour for the inspection then it could be undone until next years inspection. Plus if a car has lights on it they must all work to pass the state requirements. Not sure if I was to cover the fogs so they wouldn't light if that would pass muster...

    Any suggestions would be welcome.

    Thanks "ES"
     
  2. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    Are they aftermarket, or different region than USA? The way ours is exactly as your inspection requires. It will only turn on when low beams are on.

    moto g(7) power ?
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah ditto: our fog lights are stock, only work with low beams. The required wiring, relays or whatever is in there, or at least doable.

    I can post a link to wiring diagrams in a bit; might help.
     
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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The relay is already there, the switching logic is already there, it will only be powered with the low beams, and the power comes out of connector 2C at position 8. You may need to buy the repair-wire terminal 82998-24350 to put in the connector at that position.

    2C8.png
    rw.png

    The green wire that runs from the stalk switch to connector L7 pin 27 of the body ECU is probably already there. You ground it to turn the fogs on.

    There's an existing old thread.

    I don't remember whether mine already had the listed 15 amp fuse in the FR FOG position of the fuse box. I had put in LED fogs that only draw a couple of amps, so I put in a 3 amp fuse instead of a 15.
     
  5. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    THIS is ridiculous.
    If conditions are right to have the Hi Beams ON, who gives a TRA if the fogs are on or not ??
    Hint: NOBODY.
    You may have been given some bad information.
    I suggest that you double check it......and if this is true, just disconnect the fogs before inspection.
     
  6. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    Uh, he said all lights need to be operational so disconnecting is a no go...

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Or, as the car already comes with a fog circuit that works exactly the way the inspectors want ... maybe use that.
     
  8. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania does. In its Vehicle Equipment and Inspection Regulations (PDF), see 175.80(a)(9)(x), page 37, which requires rejection if “The fog lamps operate with the high beams of the headlamps or are substituted for the low beams.”
     
  9. ES44AC

    ES44AC C.A.U.S

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    Thank you! I rest my case.

    The fogs are aftermarket; same as or similar to those sold by the Chat Shop. There is NO existing wiring or relays to use,the stalk has no fog position nor any fuses named FOG. You have the fun of doing it all.

    They work fine and do I personally care if the are ON or OFF with my low beams? Hell no!:mad: But I need DO a Pa State Inspection sticker to drive in Pa. Other than that, it's a moot point.

    So to be legal I need to sort out a way to do it,that's why I ask the question.

    I DO appreciate everyone's interest, I understand that no one has our inspection laws memorized, nor should they have to.

    Regards,

    "ES"
     
    #9 ES44AC, Sep 3, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Others with Gen 3 Prii have learned otherwise. I'm one of them. The information is available to you in posts above and linked from them.

    If you replace the stalk with one from a fog-equipped model, you will probably find that the green wire from the stalk connector to L7 pin 27 is already there. If you don't want to change the stalk, just put an add-on switch somewhere that grounds that wire when turned ON.

    You could use the switch you already added, just rearrange things so it grounds L7(27), and you take the power from 2C(8) to your fog lights.

    Taking a look at page 477 in your 2011 owner's manual, it's possible you might not have a fuse already in position 10. (Whether you do or not, you should be able to hear the relay click when you ground L7(27) if the low beam headlights are on.) If there isn't a fuse there already, depending on your fog lights, you could put in a 15 amp as originally specified. Because the ones I added are LEDs, I just put in a 3 amp.

    frfog.png
     
  11. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    BUT.....FOG lights are not a required feature.
    But then the rules there appear to make no sense anyway.
     
  12. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Poorly worded and blindly interpreted.
    What it should say is: "fog lamps that operate ONLY with the high beams".

    It causes absolutely NO PROBLEM if the fogs stay on with the high beams.
    It accomplishes nothing useful but is NOT a problem.
     
  13. ES44AC

    ES44AC C.A.U.S

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    [QUOTE="sam spade 2, post:
    It accomplishes nothing useful but is NOT a problem.[/QUOTE]

    Sam I agree, you are welcome to send your thoughts to the PA DMV in Harrisburg, the state capital. I'm sure they'd be pleased to hear from you and your edited version of their blind edict. :censored:

    "ES"
     
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  14. ES44AC

    ES44AC C.A.U.S

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    So reading further produced this :

    Do the fog lights on the vehicle have to work for it to pass safety inspection? What about for enhanced safety inspection?
    posted Nov 9, 2015, 9:07 PM by Jim Mack [ updated Nov 17, 2015, 10:50 PM ]
    For annual safety inspection, the regulations (Pub 45) state that a vehicle is to be rejected for inspection if :

    "An exterior bulb or sealed beam, if originally equipped or installed, fails to light properly, except ornamental lights."

    As you can see from this wording, if a vehicle is equipped with fog lights at the time of inspection they are required to work, however, fog lights are not listed as required lighting for passenger vehicles in Table IV of the inspection manual. Because of this, a vehicle could have non-functioning fog lights removed and then be eligible to pass safety inspection.

    For ENHANCED SAFETY INSPECTION, it is a little different as the requirements in Pub 645 state that;

    "Lighting – All lighting must meet the same specifications as the original vehicle equipment."

    This means that if the vehicle was originally equipped with fog lights from the OEM they must be on the vehicle and in working order at the time of the enhanced safety inspection.

    Just a bit ambiguous... the first part makes it sound like you could remove the lights and sockets and pass.
    Part 2 makes it sound like they must be on the car, but the vehicle never had them to begin with.. <sigh>

    "ES"
     
  15. ES44AC

    ES44AC C.A.U.S

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    ChapmanF,

    Thanks a lot for the information, I need to figure out where all these connections or plugs are located. I am assuming, maybe wrongly so that they are on the kick panel on the drivers side of the car? It would be great if I could install one wire with an extra switch to make the fogs go off when the low beams are on. That would be too easy eh? A simple DPST could do it if there was a way.

    Again thanks, I need to research all this a bit more. Right now I am seeing fog lights in my sleep :sleep::sleep:

    "ES"
     
  16. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    No, it doesn't mean that at all.
    Because after-market fog lights are NOT "originally equipped or installed".
    IF....you live in PA, I suggest that you print out a copy of that and keep it with you for inspections.
    I don't live in PA so I don't care.
     
  17. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    It would be even better if you could SAY what you actually mean.;)
    They need to be OFF when the HIGH beams are on.

    This could be accomplished by getting the power for the fogs from the same wires that power the low beams (only).
    That is assuming that the low beams are OFF when the high beams are ON.
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If you sit in the driver's seat upside down, facing up, there is a small fuse panel you're looking at.

    That fuse panel is really just the bottom edge of a larger hunk of hardware called the Instrument Panel Junction Block. A lot of wiring comes together there.

    If you look at the edge that faces the driver (easier to see if you pop off the trim panel, the one with the panel dimmer and mirror controls), there are two big multipole connectors plugged into that edge of it, 2B and 2C. Here's an ebay listing that shows what the junction block looks like from various angles. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th photos are showing the edge where 2B and 2C plug in.

    There's a picture of 2C upthread in post #4. Position 8 of that connector probably has no wire present. You can buy the terminal (shown in the same post) and add it in position 8, et voilà, you have a wire made to power foglights, on with a switch, but only when the low beams are on, connected to the fuse slot in that block that is already conveniently labeled FR FOG.

    Sandwiched right up on the right side of the junction block is the Body ECU, which controls it. There are also a couple of multipole connectors plugged into the Body ECU, L7 and L8. They are smaller because they only have to carry signals, not the heavier currents the junction block deals in.

    L7 position 27 is the control signal for the fogs. When you connect it to ground, the fogs are on (if the low beams are). When you don't, they're not. L7 looks like this:

    L7.png

    You probably already have a wire in that position of L7, it is probably light green, and it goes to connector L47, which is up on the steering column where the stalk switch plugs in. It's position 4 of that connector, which looks like this:

    L47.png

    If you have a version of the stalk with no fog switch, it just plugs into that connector and has nothing at position 4. If you check ebay or recycle yards for a stalk with the fog switch, it will plug in to the same connector and control your fogs.

    Or, if you just already have a switch you want to use, connect one side of the switch to ground and the other side to that wire. Done.
     
    #18 ChapmanF, Sep 4, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
  19. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    But even if installed as an aftermarket feature, they are still regulated in many states. Including my state, which no longer has annual inspections, but otherwise still has foglight regulations matching what ES faces.
    And if as an out-of-stater, you don't like it ... the legislature and law enforcement don't care what you think.
     
  20. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    "The law" cares about what the rules actually SAY.
    Not a twisted interpretation.

    IF......the rule that was posted here is the only one dealing with the issue, then the interpretation is WRONG.
    And I don't roll over and play dead when someone tries to impose their stupidity on ME.
    You can if you want.
     
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