Things cops want you to know...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Dec 9 2006, 03:51 PM) [snapback]359787[/snapback]</div>

Ahh Prius Guy, tell me you are the one who did the post on Glocktalk...you made it sound like you were the original author (c'mon..you know you did)

 

I had a similar thread to this several months ago. I basically said...here is your chance to ask any ? you want...have at it.

I got a lot of positive feedback and I hope I was able to give a different..human..side to police work.

As I near retirement, I know that some people will NEVER understand police, some people will ALWAYS hate police, and some people will rerspect us sop long as we earn that respect.

There are good cops and there are bad cops, there are good plumbers and there are bad plumbers...just that when cops make bad decisions, people get hurt.

PLEASE don't try to compare drunk officers, wife beating officers, theiving officers, and drugged up/selling officers with getting out of trasffic tickets.

Remember, we give lots of warnings for traffic to citizens so there is NO CORRUPTION in givng officers warnings for things that ordinary citizens get warnings for. Spend your time worrying about cops doing criminal things, all the rest will then start to take care of itself.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Dec 10 2006, 05:53 PM) [snapback]360183[/snapback]</div>

This would be considered intellectual property theft of copyrighted material had anyone else done it, but the OP will get a pass on account of professional courtesy.

Plagiarism by any other name is still plagiarism.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Dec 10 2006, 06:03 PM) [snapback]360190[/snapback]</div>

That's just fine if the percentage of warning tickets issued to cops is in the same order of magnitude as those given to citizens. If one's record of citations to officers stopped is, say, 100 warning tickets vs. 0 real tickets then your explanation is just a rationalization for unethical behavior.

The post above about the Des Moines officer captured drunk at 99 mph and suffering some $400 in pay loss isn't what a citizen would be liable for if stopped for the same thing. A night in jail would probably be the first little difference. Sounds like a bit more than a minor traffic violation to me and he gets off with a hand slap. The big things you ask us to worry about usually start with getting away with little things, don't you think? Corruption is a learned art.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Dec 9 2006, 04:48 PM) [snapback]359910[/snapback]</div>

In reality they are asking you a question that you cannot answer without giving up your constitutional right to a presumption of innocence. Any answer to that question shows evidence of guilt ... "Yes, its 35" but you were going 45, or "No, I don't know" means you were not paying attention to the speed limit. Either way, it adds to evidence against you.

Whenever stopped by police, remember that they are usually on a "fishing expedition" and you should be very careful to not give the officer any reason to do a complete search of your vehicle. Smiling and saying "I'm sure you can tell me" and not answering the trick question is the best ... if the policeman will let you get away with it.
Otherwise, "No, I don't know" is probably the best answer.

We would be better served with more officers dedicated to actual crime fighting than traffic patrol. Perhaps we can get there with more red-light cameras and speed sensor cameras to automate ticketing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Dec 10 2006, 11:20 PM) [snapback]360278[/snapback]</div>

Just don't answer at all. You are not compelled to answer "trick" questions. Silence can be your friend.

 

I don't know how to start a poll but I've seen a lot from the policemen here about the phenomenal number of "warning tickets" they give out. I've never gotten one in my life but have received a number of the real ones. I'd like to know how others fared: what the percentage of warning to punitive tickets (roughly) we have averaged.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Dec 10 2006, 03:43 PM) [snapback]360087[/snapback]</div>

Ha! 10 years ago, I WAS that chick from NSB =) Except that my dad had set three very hard and fast rules for me: I was not to let my grades drop, I was not to get knocked up, and I was not to get busted doing anything I'd be embarrassed to tell him about.

It didn't prevent me from doing all the things that kids my age shouldn't do, but it DID keep me from being as stupid and reckless as some of my agemates. Know the folks you're hanging out with, pick a safe place to socialize, the alcohol belongs in the trunk, noone with more than a tbsp of Nyquill goes anywhere near the drivers seat of any car... Oddly enough, all of these rules have the bonus of not putting ourselves and our friends at risk, and keep the cops from making uncomfortable phone calls home!

As with adults, the problem is rarely with the behavior itself, it's a failure to be responsible for the choices you make. Teens have the capability to make decent decisions, just like adults, but parents often don't expect this of them or even think about their own actions at all. Big surprise - parents can't be bothered with being responsible, and then raise irresponsible kids. ::sigh::

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Dec 11 2006, 02:38 AM) [snapback]360282[/snapback]</div>

I can't complain about warning tickets. Got one a while back on a long straight stretch of highway late one night, and I think he only let me go because he didn't believe a Volvo could go that fast or something. So, out of the ten or so speeding tickets I've gotten in my life, that's my lone warning ticket for speeding. I've also received warning tickets about equipment stuff or expired inspection stickers, but I assume that's probably the norm in those cases.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(grasshopper @ Dec 10 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]360116[/snapback]</div>

Most of the people in our jails and prisons are there for drug offenses. While in prison I met lots of them. The interesting thing is the large number of guys who told me that the amount of drug they were arrested with was roughly double the amount they were charged with possessing. Of course, they were not about to stand up in court and say, "Your honor, I had twice that much," since that could have resulted in added prison time. So the question is, where did the rest of it go? The assumption was obvious. It was universally believed among the inmates that the police took half to sell on the side. And before you say the mising half was used in sting operations, consider that drugs legally seized and presented in evidence can be used in a sting operation, if that operation is legal. The police do not need to hide half the evidence for any legal purpose.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Dec 10 2006, 11:29 PM) [snapback]360280[/snapback]</div>

Exactly. Silence and a smile.

I support police who stop drivers for actual traffic infractions, whether they give a ticket or a warning. What I do not support are police who invent "reasons" for stopping people just to intimidate them into allowing a search of their car because the cop thinks the driver looks like someone who would have contraband.

I do not hate police. I liked the cops who arrested me. They were very nice about it. But I recognize that people of color are treated very differently than I was by many cops. I do not like cops who abuse people who give them no reason to do so, or who harass people who've given no indication of breaking the law, or who treat one group of citizens differently than another.

 

"Law Enforcement has changed in the last 25 yrs, then it was break heads"

Ah, those were the days!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Dec 11 2006, 02:52 AM) [snapback]360295[/snapback]</div>

Just for reference, this isn't how it works. Everybody assumes that something written IS the author's own work unless stated otherwise. Look at every post on this site to see this is true. I can't find one single "The above statement is my own" anywhere on PriusChat. It's always good form to mention who did the actual work involved, even a lowly co-worker. That way we get to see who was truly clever.

My gauge, and what caused me to research this minimally, is to compare the usual writing standards of the poster with the new object posted. In this case, the lack of Smilies alone convinced me that somebody else was the real author.

When my students turn in papers to me, I can usually tell immediately whether it is their work or not. Perfect spelling, deep reasoning and well-turned arguments of a sophistication rare in college freshmen and sophomores convinces me that the paper is a fraud. I've never been proved wrong.

(The above words are the original musings of Alnilam and you damned well better not copy them anywhere without giving me credit (and royalties.) (I copied the Smiley.)

 

I have a theory that cops are sick and tired of listening to people that aren't accountable for their own actions. My basic meaning is that people lie. I was in traffic court once and every single person that stood up said that they weren't guilty. That has to be going on when people get pulled over. Can one of you Officers comment if this is occurring and how it affects your handling of the incident?

 

While i'm not a cop, and have never been to traffic court (or any court, actually), i'd have to imagine that you would only show up at court to say you're not guilty - otherwise you'd save yourself the time and hassle by just mailing in the fine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Dec 11 2006, 08:42 AM) [snapback]360356[/snapback]</div>

Of course people will say they are not guilty in court. The whole point of court is to be found not guilty, and as an earlier poster said of traffic court, if you are not going to claim you're innocent, you won't be in court, except at arraignment you'll plead guilty and be done with it.

However, most prison inmates, at least among themselves, as I can testify from my time among them as an equal, make no such claims of innocence. A few do, and a large number (but a small percentage) have stories of entrapment. But by and large, prison inmates admit to their crimes, but with some very interesting twists. I've already mentioned the significant number who said they were in possession of twice as much drug as they were charged with. Then there was the fellow who was convicted of possession of a kilo of marijuana to sell. He asserted that he had nothing to do with that particular kilo, but that he did in fact sell marijuana. He did not say this as a complaint, just as a curiosity of the vagaries of the justice system. But most of the guys admitted their crimes (at least among themselves) and accepted their punishment. The most-repeated saying I heard in prison was, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." You seldom hear "I'm innocent" or "I was framed." You mostly just hear "I got caught."

The sad cases are the entrapment ones. Some folks will fault me for believing them. And I did not believe all of them. I heard plenty of wacko stories, and I wrote them off as such. But there were a number where the story was credible, and we know that entrapment of innocent people does happen. The way it works is like this: Undercover agent approaches a citizen and asks for drugs. Citizen says, "Sorry, I'm not into that." Agent pretends to be addicted and going through withdrawl, and begs and pleads until the citizen finally conducts him to the neighborhood dealer, who everyone in the neighborhood knows. Agent then has the citizen arrested and charged with conspiracy. Since the citizen has not actually possessed or sold any drug, conspiracy is the only charge they can hold against him. We all know entrapment happens, and I met some of its victims. Real people torn away from their families by overzealous cops, for the "crime" of taking pity on someone they thought was suffering.

But most inmates say "I did it and I got caught. That's how the ball bounces."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Dec 11 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]360421[/snapback]</div>

From someone who has fought numerous motor vehicle related tickets, and who holds a 65-75% chance of beating any misdemeanor traffic/vehicular infraction that's thrown at me, I can tell you MOST do flat out lie, and try and weasle out of it with real pathetic arguments (i.e. begging for mercy). HOWEVER, accountability generally has little bearing on the situation. The officer generally has to prove whatever he's accusing you of, it's HIS BURDEN, YOU'RE PRESUMED INNOCENT and it's your God given right to question EVERY ASPECT of his accusation. This means everything... Every little detail, no matter how obscure. What it boils down to, is really a pissing match of details, if you can drag an "I don't know" out of a cop in front of a Judge, you're likely winning.

You analyze every detail of almost any traffic stop, you'll realize just how clumsy law enforcement in this respect can be, so the question isn't IF you did it, but rather, how did he came to the conclusion of his accusation, and whether or not it can "stick"...

h34r:

 

Thats a very good point, Squid. One of my housemates last year got out of a ticket for pretty much the same reason - he did a rolling stop through a stop sign and got pulled over for it. Luckily for him, he was able to get the cop to admit he wasn't sure in court (essentially the stop sign was situated back a little bit from the intersection, such that he was hidden from view by a building on the corner). He did roll through the stop, completely and totally - he just didn't have enough free cash at the time (he just spent nearly every penny in his savings and checking on a new boat) to want to pay the ticket.

 

I have the utmost respect for the Police and the work which they do...until we get to the 'cops don't give other cops tickets' part. That has been, and will always be, quite problematic.

I REALLY wish that police officers wouldn't go about bragging on this sort of thing. It doesn't make any friends among those of us to whom ALL the laws apply.

---------

When I was young, I dated this guy who used to like to drive around untl he found a cop car working locally, and follow it around for a while, just to mess with the officer.

He also took me on a date on the roof of a fast food restaurant...but we talked our way out of an arrest because the ladder was firmly affixed to the building and there wasn't a no tresspassing sign posted...could have been the way to rooftop seating, after all...

He's a cop now. Interesting.

So, explain to me, again, why police don't get tickets from other officers?


--Do their legal transgressions necessarily not result in the usual negative outcomes which ours, as civilians, do?
--Do the laws of inertia not apply to cars driven by an off-duty officer?
--Are their bumpers on their personal cars made from a different material which won't injure or kill a pedestrian in a crosswalk, or a student in a school zone, like the ones on my Prius?
--And, if it's okay to violate traffic laws, which other ones are also okay? If none other, than are you saying that traffic laws are the most unimportant of all?
--If the 9/11 terrorists were also police officers, would they not have to go to jail?
--Where, exactly do y'all draw the line on letting other offficers off the hook? Is there a codebook, or is it the 'officer's discretion?'
--Have cops ever let each other off the hook for capital crimes?

Sorry, but isn't the idea of the law, that it's applied *independently* of those who are administering it? Watergate proved that; even the President wasn't above the law.

But those who enforce it are? Is that like getting free soft drinks when working at a restaurant?

I think people would respect the Police much more if y'all lived by the laws you're paid to enforce.

Can you tell that I'm getting more and more angry???

PS, I recall reading some time ago that a high level internal Califonia Highway Patrol document called motorists who received tickets 'revinue sources.' That's what it's all about, really, isn't it? I don't think traffic enforcement is usually about safety; it's usually about $$$$$. Traffic stops usually pay for themselves and don't require a highly trained, specialized officer...whereas investigating other types of crimes is usually a net loss.