This guy can get 59mpg in a plain old Accord. Beat that, punk

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by daveleeprius, Jan 3, 2007.

  1. daveleeprius

    daveleeprius Heh heh heh you think so?

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    From MotherJones.com

    ===
    This Guy Can Get 59 MPG in a Plain Old Accord. Beat That, Punk.

    Drafting 18-wheelers with the engine off, taking death turns at 52 miles an hour, and other lessons learned while riding shotgun with the king of the hypermilers

    Dennis Gaffney
    January/February 2007 Issue

    on a midsummer saturday in a sprawling wisconsin parking lot, about a dozen people are milling about a candy-apple red Honda Insight. They're watching Wayne Gerdes prepare for his run in Hybridfest's mpg Challenge, a 20-mile race through the streets of Madison. Wayne is the odds-on favorite to win the challenge, in which drivers compete to push the automotive limits not of speed and power—a desire those gathered here consider old-fashioned and wasteful—but for the unsexy title of Most Fuel-Efficient Driver in the World.

    [Full Article]
    http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/20...ypermilers.html

    [Moderator Edited]
     
  2. San_Carlos_Jeff

    San_Carlos_Jeff Active Member

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    I wonder how much fuel is wasted because people have to hit the brakes, miss green lights, etc. when this guy is on the road? Driving for mileage is fine, but when you have a blatant disregard for other drivers at a minimum it's rude, in some cases it's just plain dangerous.

    As George Constanza would say "You know, we're living in a society!</span></span>"
     
  3. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Jan 3 2007, 05:12 PM) [snapback]370355[/snapback]</div>
    Just so you know, it's a violation of copyright to post the entire article unless permission is given.

    The Priuschat guidelines are to post a paragraph or paraphrase and a link to the original.
     
  4. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    My moped gets 150mpg, and I probably drive it faster than this guy.

    What's the point?
     
  5. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Wayne Gerdes is not only a hypermiler but a font of information and damn great guy. His passion for hybrid technology and exceeding the EPA estimates is surpassed only by his dedication in making sure everyone knows that it's possible and how to do it themselves.

    I personally know Wayne and we live 2.3 miles apart. You will not find a more dedicated proponent to hypermiling and hybrid development than Wayne Gerdes outside the automotive industry. Proofof that statement can be found at CleanMPG.com, a hypermiling forum he co-founded with another hypermiler.

    But I don't remember ever comparing him to a member of Kiss.
     
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jan 3 2007, 06:00 PM) [snapback]370406[/snapback]</div>
    There are over 1,000 entire articles, complete with photos, posted on Wayne's own website without any apparent permission either...

    He's still obsessed as ever about MPG, but no longer fights against hybrids. Years ago, he was very outspoken, absolutely insisting Prius was a waste of money. Now, he likes Prius. That's quite a turnaround. But he still does ruffle my feathers about *BOTH* emissions & efficiency not being a priority. It was always one or the other... hence some of the Prius conflict.

    It would be great if publicity like this got him to take that next step toward better intentions. Hope sometimes comes from unexpected sources.
     
  7. brick

    brick Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 3 2007, 09:11 PM) [snapback]370473[/snapback]</div>
    I may have completely misunderstood your comment, but I don't believe there is anything wrong with Wayne's intentions. Emissions and fuel economy are both incredibly important to the future of us and our planet. Addressing one of the two is a very good start, but addressing both at the same time is far better.

    Here's my honest take on Wayne: I have never driven with him (though I would really like to see him in action some day) so I don't know what it looks like when he's running at 100% effort through traffic. I do see validity to the argument that some extreme driving tactics are not necessarily a good idea, such as driving at really ridiculously low speeds relative to the rest of traffic. But I personally see him as much, much more than one guy trying to save a few gallons of fuel. He is the cutting edge of fuel efficient driving IMO and as such is the best single source of information for those who want it. Does this mean that everybody has drive with the load/drive without brakes while ridge riding in the right lane under FAS through traffic, always waiting for the next opportunity to get a few P&G cycles in to bring up the segment FE :p ? No! (And yes, I made that sound complicated for dramatic effect.) What it does mean is that he is driving at his personal limits and passing on the information in hopes that the rest of the driving public will learn what really works, then pick and choose the tactics that are appropriate for them.

    As I have said before in other threads, you don't have to "make sacrifices" to improve your fuel economy. It just takes knowledge and a few changes to your thought process. An opportunistic P&G cycle here, an extended coast to a red light there, cruising with the right lane rather than the left, and a host of other techniques thrown in when appropriate will do the trick without causing grief to you or anyone else. I took this principle to heart after reading what he had to say and was really satisfied with the results. I couldn't get Wayne's 59mpg out of my own Accord, but I did manage many 40mpg+ tanks while working at least a couple of levels below his game. Discussion with him and other members of his site played an important role in my buying a Prius rather than something else with less fuel economy potential.

    Wayne is a good guy with good intentions. You may not agree with what he personally does, but I impore you all to recognize that he's playing for the same team, so to speak. Please don't get caught up in him vs. 'us' because there isn't anything to be gained. It would be really great if he would stop by here to chat.
     
  8. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    This is why I mention it.

    I like Priuschat and don't want anything to happen to it.

    On another forum I post on a member habitually posted entire articles with no links. Or entire articles with links. But entire articles. She was requested repeatedly not to post entire articles but to provide links and either a paragraph or a short summary. (The same policy here on Priuschat.)

    She continued to post entire articles. Somehow word got to the New York Times about an article she had posted in its entirety.

    Well the forum got a cease and desist from lawyers representing the New York Times. The post was to be removed and if it happened again, they would contact the forums ISP and have us shut down.

    I don't want MotherJones going after Danny.

    There is a policy for posting on Priuschat. It isn't unreasonable. I may be overreacting, but I don't want anything like that to happen here.

    (thank you to DaveLeePrius for editing.)

    BTW if this guy can get 59 mpg from an Accord, imagine what he could do with a Prius.
     
  9. VABeachPrius

    VABeachPrius Member

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    Godiva,

    You may recall the prius marathon in August 2005, where the Prius acheived 109ish mpg. Wayne was on of the drivers during that event.
     
  10. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(San_Carlos_Jeff @ Jan 3 2007, 05:03 PM) [snapback]370388[/snapback]</div>
    For some perverse reason, I still have a few scathing e-mails that would lead strangers to think I was worthy of the FBI's Top Ten. Now that a couple of years have passed - it's pretty funny.

    There is a way to hypermile safely, and a way not to do it. For instance, I generally keep on the righmost lane on the freeways, so others have typically two lanes to the left of me to get by. Also, I tend to drive at non-peak hours. Wayne does this. I don't expect everyone will drive like him, but some things he does can be done at the speed of the traffic. A no-brainer is to avoid accerelating to red lights, but there is much more...

    Hypermiling does not have to bottleneck drivers behind them - repeat DOES NOT. Please stop promoting this myth that if you go at or slightly under the speed limit, you are a traffiic problem, so you must go with the flow that seems to be going faster every year.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 3 2007, 08:11 PM) [snapback]370473[/snapback]</div>
    Wayne is not puttting an Insight, Prius, TDI diesel, etc over your set of wheels these days - I've seen so may people in this "my car is better than yours" mode - general statement. John, I think your observation should be viewed positively, rather than hypocrisy form Wayne.

    In general, the less fuel you use - the lower the emisssions. If you get on the bleeding edge of fuel efficiency (i.e. 5-speed Insight, some diesels), some emissions increase, but keep in mind it's still WAY above the average American's 22mpg vehicle's fuel economy and far less in emisions.

    When I see Wayne bashed on this thread, I ask myself "why do people do such rip jobs on people they have never met personally?" Granted, I did get into a flame war three years ago with Wayne, but he has changed his views. We all change our views, but isn't that usually learning and maturity?

    I have met Wayne personally twice, and many people have known him longer. Tony knows Wayne well. Why aren't these people ripping Wayne? Think before you type.
     
  11. Beryl Octet

    Beryl Octet New Member

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    Wow. That's just amazing. Not the 109 MPG in a Prius, the 30 with the MDX. Thanks for posting the link.
     
  12. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 3 2007, 10:11 PM) [snapback]370473[/snapback]</div>
    John,
    Perhaps you might want to take time next summer and come meet Wayne, and many others in the hybrid car community at Hybridfest 2007. Wayne plans on giving a few presentations. Maybe you'd even want to do your own presentation? We've got room for you!

    The article's author, Dennis Gaffney, came to Hybridfest last year, and he enjoyed talking with many of the hybrid owners in attendance. Over 25 different states were represented! If I remember correctly, Dennis even bought a Prius after all the research he did at Hybridfest.

    As the article shows, Wayne is all about getting great gas mileage in anything he drives. Clearly not everyone will go to the extremes that Wayne does, but I think people can take a small nugget of information from his views and implement it when appropriate.

    I guess I've only known Wayne since December 2003 when he bought his Honda Insight, so I don't ever remember him being against hybrids. (He sold his Insight after getting an average 92 mpg for the 37,000 miles he drove it!)

    His current vehicle is his 59 mpg non-hybrid Accord. Rather than settle for the SULEV rated ones at his local dealer, he drove halfway across the country so he could get a PZEV version. So your comment insinuating that Wayne doesn't think both emissions and efficiency are priorities perplexes me. (Also, the name of his site is Clean MPG. I assume clean refers to emissions.)

    Anywho, I think Wayne has good intentions and I, again, encourage you to meet him and other hybrid owners at Hybridfest 2007 if you have time. A civil, open discussion can be an eye-opening experience.
     
  13. keydiver

    keydiver New Member

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    "If the epa would mandate fcds in every car, this country would save 20 percent on fuel overnight," he says. "They're not expensive for the manufacturers to put in—10 to 20 bucks—and it would save more fuel than all the laws passed in the last 25 years. All from a simple display."

    Great quote! I've said the same thing ever since getting my Prius a year ago. If people only KNEW how much they were wasting by their crazy driving!
     
  14. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Jan 4 2007, 11:25 AM) [snapback]370740[/snapback]</div>
    I kick myself for not contacting sites like PC last summer and launch an e-mailing campaign to candidates in California suggesting they should sponsor a bill to do just that. If California does it, all cars will have it.
     
  15. Beryl Octet

    Beryl Octet New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Jan 4 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]370744[/snapback]</div>
    FCDs in every car seem like a great idea, and it's not too late to start lobbying. Like the song says, if enough people keep asking for it, they may think it's a movement.
     
  16. daveleeprius

    daveleeprius Heh heh heh you think so?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 4 2007, 12:32 PM) [snapback]370749[/snapback]</div>
    Our 1975 Olds Delta 88 Royale had a fuel economy gauge above and right of the speedometer. It was a min max gauge, and when you were climbing a hill it would go into the red zone "min" and there was a yellow zone after that and then a larger green zone. I can remember climbing hills trying to keep it out of the red zone. And this car got 12mpg city and 16mpg highway! Even back in 1992, the last year I drove it until I bought my 1970 VW Type III Squareback (which got 28-40mpg), I can remember filling up that 26 gallon gas tank cost more than $20, and unheard of sum for me back in those days!!

    Dave
     
  17. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Thanks, Eric.
    I was thinking about this while I was driving to work this morning (having read the article last night). The extremes Wayne practices are extreme. Trust me, when he was drafting off the semi in Priapus, "extreme" was not the word that came to mind.

    However, I do not shut off the car but I do stealth when I can, glide when I can, and even slip into neutral when I can. This is similar to what Wayne does.

    I noticed a long time ago that I take an average right-hand turn at approximately 18 - 20 miles per hour. Therefore, I will coast decelerating as I approach the turn at approximately 18 - 20 miles per hour. That way I can make the turn without having to brake going in to hard-accelerating coming out. It's not a "Death Turn" but it's the same principal.

    Wayne times his stoplights. So do I. I have my own "1.5 second rule" about clearing intersections: for every car sitting at a red light, it will take approximately 1.5 seconds per vehicle before you can proceed through it. Using Wayne's keen sense of timing, I glide or stealth to the light so that by the time I get there I go right through. Again, driving without braking.

    I park on tops of hills or at least bumps. I either back in on battery or I pull through to face out. Either way, Wayne taught me that.

    My tires are obscenely overinflated according to most but no where near the pressures Wayne runs.

    Wayne has taught me the tricks and proven that they work. I use some of them as I see fit and always within my own personal comfort level. What you do with his lessons is entirely up to you. Personally, I'm aiming for at least eight 60+MPG tanks this summer.

    Oh yeah, and why am I mentioned in the article if only for one silly little quote?

    It turns out there was a lot of shared hotel rooms for Hybridfest. At the last minute, I secured a hotel with a guy named Dennis looking for a roommate to offset some of the cost. Turned out he's the author.

    As Eric said, he bought a Prius after the 'fest. Coincidence? ;)
     
  18. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    The fuel economy gauge is a manifold vacuum gauge, right? Those have been around since forever.

    I drove, briefly, a '67 Impala SS, it had the 'sport instrument cluster' and there was a vacuum gauge on the RH side of the panel, if I remember correctly.
     
  19. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Jan 4 2007, 08:51 AM) [snapback]370685[/snapback]</div>
    DeltaFlyer, I could not have said it better myself.

    I too have very high regards for Wayne and I see him as an outstanding individual. His work and dedication to promoting fuel economy and more recently automotive hybrid technologies easily overshadows any attempt I have seen in recent memory from anyone ! I personally, have him and a lot of other people he influenced to thank for the enjoyment I get out of my hybrids.

    Why then are we bashing him?

    This is silly and embarassing !


    Cheers



    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jan 4 2007, 12:47 PM) [snapback]370800[/snapback]</div>
    A fuel economy gauge displays the iFE values on the OBD data stream. Most vehicles manufactured since 1996 are OBD-I or II compliant and the only thing preventing today's drivers from seeing the instant fuel economy info is the absense of an inexpensive gauge.

    Of course, most hybrids provide the instrumentation to display this info we take for granted.

    Cheers;

    MSantos
     
  20. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jan 4 2007, 12:47 PM) [snapback]370800[/snapback]</div>
    It's the granddaddy of www.scangage.com and the dash instrumentation of today's Prius, greatly enhanced.
     
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