This guy can get 59mpg in a plain old Accord. Beat that, punk

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSantos @ Jan 8 2007, 10:00 PM) [snapback]372882[/snapback]</div>

That is simply not true, and never has been.

I have been saying "SULEV" rating everywhere, especially when discussing new diesel systems.

That's why I want to address this once and for all, to finally end the rumors being spread that anything not Toyota is wrong... because that just plain is not the case. I too would like to move on. Agreeing upon an acceptable emission minimum and efficiency-improvement minimum will do that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 9 2007, 09:57 AM) [snapback]372979[/snapback]</div>

Then maybe you should change how you talk to people. It would also help if your posts stopped sounding like you were vomiting an HSD commercial.

Your antagonism towards Wayne is amazing. I've seen it on many forums, and it never ceases to amuse me. It's as if you can't accept the fact that someone else is doing something different to promote being more economical. The fact of the matter is John, and you would do well to accept this, there are a lot of non-SULEV, non-hybrid cars on the road now and they're *not* going anywhere anytime soon. Teaching people how to get just a bit more efficiency out of them benefits us all.

The fact that you disparage the efforts of people like Wayne just makes you look petty. Everyone is going to have different ideas and all are worthy of consideration.

 

i can see why there are sides on this issue. as there is with every issue and i find it hard to believe that people are questioning john's conviction when just about everyone here has been almost as passionate about something here at one time or another. but that is what passion is all about.

its easy to see john's point of view. Toyota does have the best current solution out. when you consider availability (at least lately anyway), price, pollution, economy, and performance... Toyota's overall score is the best we have. many can argue the point since Toyota does not top every category, but the overall score is 2nd to none.

its also easy to see Wayne's point of view. we can do A LOT with what we have. not all of us can do what Wayne can nor should we try. but the idea is valid.

but lets face it. some of the things that Wayne does is simply illegal. is that bad??

well law is a law right??

all laws are there for a good reason right???

not even a cop believes that crap.

besides, a HUGE portion of drivers break the law EVERY day. so its a question of evaluated risk. what laws can be broken and provide the greatest benefit at minimal risk to everyone?? granted Wayne goes overboard on this and he should (and does) provide "Jackass" type disclaimer (well known example only and not used to portray any opinion of what Wayne does).

and lets face it. Wayne would get no publicity at all for increasing his mileage 20% or even 30%. he has to post the numbers he does otherwise no one would even care. so he is doing the job. he is getting people in the door and he flat out admits that NO ONE should be doing all that he is doing but says that EVERYONE can do some of the things he is doing and he is right. what he is doing is a good thing.

both can co-exist because i dont think there is much overlap. i am lucky in that with my income (about 30% of the average Priuschatter) i am in a position to own one of these cars. i work with 800 people and there might be 20 other people who are in the same position. (granted most of the people i work with are young and in their 20's and i am not) but getting a hybrid is simply not an option for MOST people so what is the harm in pushing techniques that will help you save gas in your current POS?

 

<span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms">using a calm voice...

Hi Everyone,

I'd like to say that both John and Wayne have some valid points. Both are pursuing the same goal, but with different priorities and methods. They are not mutually exclusive.

I will admit Honda has not invested as much time and money on hybrid technology as Toyota. What made the Insight so great on fuel economy was also aerodynamics, light body construction (which hopefully can be more cost effective in future cars), and very efficient ICEs. Toyota's emphasis was recovering kinetic energy with a hybrid system - Honda's stressed using less energy getting the car to speed to begin with. Both points are valid.

Toyota was looking at a vehicle that would appeal to a larger part of the market and be less exotic. For a business standpoint, this was wiser. For me, a 5-speed Insight is going to deliver the best fuel economy for my mostly highway driving, probably not to be exceeded until the Prius III. I also realize that being a two seater with limited luggage space is a substantial drawback as well as the increased driver involvement (but I find that fun).

Has Honda made mistakes? Definitely. Should their IMA and clean diesel be severely ripped? No - they are still the greenest automaker in terms of fleet fuel economy and a committment to reduce their CO2 emissions. It could be argued they could make better choices, but life is full of trial-and-error. Looking at their history and past results, Honda's greeness is far beyond what any Detroit automaker has done to date - if you are going to rip an automaker for being ungreen - bash Detroit.

Maybe a few of you follow sports. I've run a marathon before and I'd admire Dean_Karnazes. He made 50 26.2 mile runs in 50 days and ran 350 miles nonstop. :blink: I would not go that far, but I might do a few of the things he did. It like I don't expect many to drive like Wayne, but if a lot of people did a few of the things he did it would safe a lot of gas as well as some wear and tear. I'm think in terms of the pack staying within 5mph of the posted limit, yielding to others, no sudden turns, accelerations, or braking - looking ahead, being alert. That's not nearly to the extent of what Wayne does, but the driving I just described nationally would save on both gas and emissions enormously.

When I first posted on forums, I was harsher. It's easy to become vicious and vindictive during a flame war, but doing so guanatees you alienate rather than win over someone. Sometimes it's just better to let a topic rest and possibly resume when emotions are calmer.

Hope there was some good in this post - I'm finally done (I think).

Peace Everybody</span>