Thought it was trans but codes don't agree.

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Wecandothat4u, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    Hi. New here. Not sure of correct place to post. Figured Newbie Forum would be the best place to look stupid. Heh.

    2003 G1 has been just slowing down for a while. Everything's great, then it slows down. Stop. Shut it off. Wait a while and it starts back up and drives fine for weeks or so. Then it repeats.

    But a few days ago we were on the freeway headed to the twin cities and the engine was running at a higher speed than normal. For a while, then back to normal. Went about our business and tried to finish the trip. Just ten miles short of home, in the fast lane, it starts to lose power again. Clever maneuvering gets me to the slow lane and we are able to limp a couple miles to the next off ramp. At least we're not out on the freeway. But it isn't going to get to the top of the off ramp. Will go into reverse and move a bit, but trying to go forward, it skips and just seems like a slipping trans. Then the dash goes dim and dark. I figure the 12V battery in the back might be dying, but wait a bit and it starts and maybe moves a foot or two, then jerks and eventually the engine dies. Rinse. Repeat. I checked the codes there and there were like 18 of them. Foolishly (cold and not thinking clearly) I wiped the codes without noting them and restarted the car, tried to move it, and read codes again. No idea what they were. Dumb, I know.

    I'll leave out the details of how my son sticks the rollback in our driveway and needs help to pull it out. Leave out the part where it's 23 degrees and we are poorly prepared for waiting by the side of the road with a foot of snow all around us. But I will say that we happened to be right next to a Subway restaurant and after an hour and a half out there we decided to visit them. Fortunately we didn't freeze to death thanks to them allowing us to hang out there until help finally arrived. And so we finally did get it home.

    So I'm thinking transmission. (slipping, then won't drive. But engine quitting?) So we poured a quart of WS trans oil in it while it was still on the rollback (and tilted up) It did drive a bit and got me excited for about 50 feet. Then same o same o.

    Anyway, long story short (oops, too late) today I took the codes again and I got C1259, P3190 three times, P3191 three times and P1437.

    Oh yeah, the dash continues to go dim, so I clipped on a jumper battery to the 12V in the trunk. No joy. No more going dim, but no worky.

    Hope someone can shed some light on this mystery.
     
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Hi... I'll come back to this post soon... Have to do other stuff right now...

    You might want to do some google searches on these error codes with Gen1 2003 Prius added as key words to get a better sense of the problems. The Gen 1 forum on this website has lots of info... Let me know if you get stuck and can't figure out what to try next?
     
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  3. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Well, most of the codes you've got are the sort that just confirm there is some other problem.

    What I mean is, P3190 and P3191 are just the engine control module saying it couldn't nurse as much power out of the engine as it wanted to (P3190) or even get the engine to start (P3191)—of course it always sounds like it starts because MG1 can crank it that fast, but there's no fooling the ECM when it's waiting to see the engine produce more power than it's being cranked with.

    C1259 is just a code logged by the brake/skid ECU to acknowledge that it has heard of a problem elsewhere in the hybrid system (like, not getting useful power out of the engine).

    So the real question is what's up with the engine, and that's probably where the P1437 comes in. It's an issue with the vacuum circuit used to move the bypass valve down in the exhaust ahead of the catalyst. There's about five pages of troubleshooting steps for it in the repair manual (more info).

    A recommendation: avoid seeing how far you can drive it with the engine power impaired or absent. Later generations are more assertive about saying "thus far and no farther" to protect their traction batteries, but a Gen 1 will leave it all on the field for you, and then you'll have a washed-up traction battery on top of the original issue.
     
    #4 ChapmanF, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
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  5. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    @ChapmanF Okay, cool. Thanks for the help. Sounds like I need the repair manual.

    Two sets were available on eBay. One a little cheaper for 2001. Ad says it will cover 2002 and 2003. Hmm. Probably best to pay the extra and get the one for 2003. So that's what I did. Won't get here until the 18th though.

    Wonder if anyone can help me with those five pages? It's our main car. My Insight only carries two people and we four sometimes need to all go together.
     
  6. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Also go to the website of your local library, they might have one waiting for you!

    PS: I sure do love Gen 1 Insights! Just finished working on one an hour ago...
     
  7. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    @PriusCamper Thanks, I'll check that too.

    Yeah, bought a new Insight in 2000. Let it go when we moved. Now have #s 2 and 3. #2 has some body issues my son added, but I've kept it as a parts car. Funny thing though. Haven't needed any parts. Might put it back in service.
     
  8. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Was just texting about a Gen 1 parts car that the person who's insight I just fixed wants to get rid of... I'm sure you'll agree that buying a part car is way smarter for people in the parts business rather than people in the business of wondering if they might one day need a part from it.

    And if anyone is interested in 2001 Red Honda Insight Hybrid 5-speed with battery and possibly engine issues an hour South of Seattle hit me up.... It's all aluminum & plastic and only weighs 1,800 pounds. A perfect car for an EV conversion.
     
  9. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    I apologize for this post, but I need more than 4 posts to be able to link to the online manual that I found. This is number 5.
     
    #9 Wecandothat4u, Dec 14, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  10. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    Okay, I'll try again.

    So I was looking for a library and ran across this site that will give me access to the manual for $19.95 a year.

    2003 Toyota Prius Repair Manual Online

    Might be a good option for folks not wanting to spend a bunch of money for the hard copy.
     
  11. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I found a Bentley Manual at my local Library...
     
  12. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    Okay... books are here. Going through them now.
     
    #12 Wecandothat4u, Dec 21, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  13. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    Okay. More info. Today I discovered I could start it and let it just run and warm up a bit and then it would actually drive a bit. But not for long. I got it up to 27 mph for a quarter mile or less and wouldn't go any faster. So I figured I'd better turn around and get back home. Died in the driveway. Repeat process and am able to move it around and put it where I want it anyway.

    But this time I got the 3006 code. Wound up removing the battery and checking all the cells voltages. All of them at 8.15V plus or minus a tiny bit. All but one. It is the one with the hole in the top for what I think is the the thermistor. One of the cells that connect to the fuse and Service Plug This one reads 6.97V.

    The service manual calls for the Toyota Handheld Tester and wants me to select HV BATTERY and CURRENT DATA to show BAT BLOCK MIN V and BAT BLOCK MAX V on the TOYOTA hand-held tester. It also talks elsewhere about freeze frame testing. I've looked for a Toyota Handheld Tester and can't find one anywhere.

    I have an OBD2 tester, but it doesn't read out the current data or freeze frames. Or I don't know how to make it do so.
    • Is there any way to test the ECU on the bench?
    • Should I just get over to the junkyard and pull one out of a wreck and try the ECU?
    • No idea what they would want for it, but they've impressed me before with their low cost for parts.
    Again, any help would be greatly appreciated.

    I know I still have other codes to deal with, but I'd like to confirm or eliminate the battery and ECU if possible.
     
    #13 Wecandothat4u, Dec 22, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  14. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Why would you focus on the ECU? Unless there are pins all covered in malachite or burnt out, I wouldn't give the ECU another thought – they usually very reliable and do not fail. It is more likely connectors or wiring harnesses.

    It is more likely you have found your problem in the module with 6.97 V. Now you have all the fun of learning how to rebuild your HV battery so that you can get your car back on the road.

    Not finding any information on the x3006 code either. Are you sure that is correct, including the fact it should start with a letter like P, C, B or U
     
  15. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    Oops. Left out the C. Yes, it is C3006.

    Guess I'll try to see if the junk yard car still has the battery. Ought to have at least one good cell. Hopefully the one with the hole. Comes with the ECU anyway. Thanks for the help. The fun never ends.

    All the connectors on both sides of the 38 cells are green and corroded. I plan to clean all that up too.
     
  16. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    I can't find a C3006 but I can find a P3006.

    DTC No. Detection Item Trouble Area
    1 P3006 Battery levels are unusually Battery pack


    Unfortunately, the repair manual doesn't offer much for this DTC. Basically, your battery is bad so replace it.
     
  17. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    @dolj You're right. I thought I took a pic of that code like all the rest (since the first night), but somehow I missed that one. It showed up as confirmed but I don't have a pic of it. I needed to clear codes to move the car a few times and once I found that code, pointing to the battery, I decided to remove the battery and check it out. Sure enough, one bad cell.

    I'll be checking for threads on battery reconditioning and cell replacement. Sounds a lot better than battery replacement.

    Thanks.
     
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  18. Wecandothat4u

    Wecandothat4u New Member

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    Okay an update is in order.

    I found a local guy that has 100 Priuses. Bought two battery modules from him and set out to charge each pair of cells with my hobby NiMh battery chargers. I can charge 7 pairs at a time, so it didn't take all that long. Turns out I only needed one module. All modules came up to 8 volts, plus or minus about .05 volts after sitting overnight. Plenty close enough for me.

    Cleaned up all the bus bars and terminals and put it all back together. Found two, by the way, of the small wires connected to each module pair, broken or corroded off. I'm guessing this is why we got the P3006 Battery Levels are ...... So I cleaned and re-soldered the wires and reinstalled the battery. No joy. Still same problem.

    So I took another shot in the dark and bought an ECM from the parts guy since it was only $40 and put that in. Still no luck, so I have ordered a better OBDII. The BlueDriver is on its way. This one will give me freeze frame data that the simple one I now have will not. Hopefully that will shine some more light on the problem.

    The adventure continues.
     
  19. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    For better troubleshooting of Gen 1 Prius you really want Toyota Techstream software running on a laptop computer.
    (An old one running Microsoft XP works fine)

    This will give you ability to see and record live data, plus perform all kinds of tests.
     
  20. Q*bertZ

    Q*bertZ Junior Member

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    Take a wrench (3/4" I believe) and put it on the Harmonic Balancer pulley bolt (passenger side) and see if you can turn the engine around. If you can not then your engine is either locked up or your planetary gear is locked up inside the transmission. Why are you putting WS transmission fluid in your transmission. That year transmission takes ATF Type T-IV.
     
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