@$%@$%^ Ticket in Orange County

I cant speak for every area but I have posted this here before. In our area SE VA and NE NC it is definitely worth going to court on the day of your hearing.

In driving 40000+ miles per year I usually get stopped 2-3 times per year for something or other ( once a year for a 15000 mi/yr driver ). I'm never doing anything dumb like 90+ or blatantly running a red light but it's the common 69 in a 55 zone.

I used to just mail it in with the check. Once I took the time to go to court - early - and found a line of people at 8Am for a 9AM appearance??? So I got in line. The line was for the DA sitting by himself. When I got there he looked at the violation, say 69 in a 55, and said 'Duke or UNC?' I said 'Duke'. He said 'Wrong, improper equipment, go pay your fine. Next' It was a one-point non-moving violation that is not reported. This or similar has happened three more times. Make the effort to go to court.

Now to avoid it alltogether.... contribute to your local PBA or FOP. If they give you 'Supporter' stickers plaster them all over the rear-left ( approach side ) of your vehicle. Since doing this - zero citations - 7 warnings. The last was for coming up too quickly on an unmarked cruiser at 67, he had his rear-looking radar on me. 'Please keep it under the speed limit, Sir' 'Sorry Officer, you're absolutely right.'

 

It varies by county. In some it's a max of once every two years. In others it's allowed more often. Some counties even have different levels of school, more hours for the repeat offenders.

 

thanks, I won't have to wonder whether this works or not

I am going to court!

 

I did go to court 3 times, once for going through a 4-way (foggy, unfamiliar neighborhood and at 2am), once for not wearing a seat belt (I was) and once for not having insurance (I was entering a military base and couldn't find my card). Each time I went to court and each time had it dismissed. A good driving record does help and if you are clear about your facts all the better.

 

Replying to the OP: If the law required a complete stop, and you didn't make a complete stop, then you're guilty, aren't you? It's not a question of who's right: you or the cop. It's a matter of you got caught. Be a man and pay your fine!

I've had parking tickets twice, and speeding tickets twice. I'd be ashamed to go to court and try to get out of paying a fine when I got caught fair and square. The cop was doing his job of trying to keep the roads safe (in the case of the speeding). Honestly, I'd rather he be out there doing that job (and catching others) than make him go to court so I can make frivolous arguments about why I should be allowed to break the speed limit.

I've also broken the law intentionally (nonviolent civil disobedience). Then I tell the judge exactly what I did and why, and I do my jail time. if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. And that applies to speeding as well as to protesting. And yes, even "dumb" laws requiring a full stop.

 

Now, the following comes from a Massachusetts perspective, your State might be a bit different, but I believe it generally goes something like this:

You should always, always, request a hearing. Generally, this first hearing is in front of the Clerk Magistrate of the particular district court. At this stage, the actual cop who wrote the citation does not have to appear, only a "representative" on his/the department's behalf (they usually save this job for the really fat old cops :lol: ). During this rather informal hearing, you can plead your case. I've found, over many years and citations, at this stage, your technical argument is actually less important than whether or not the Magistrate believes you. There are only two outcomes at this stage: "responsible" or "not responsible". Generally, if you're found "responsible", you have the option for an "appeal" hearing before a justice. Always, ALWAYS, appeal, for at this "appeal" hearing, at the very least, the cop who wrote the citation HAS to show up. My experience has shown the chances of a cop not showing up is about 20%. It's usually always worth trying given the insurance increases you will likely face if you are simply found "responsible" and pay.

Now, let's say the cops shows up.

This is where the fun begins...

I've said this a million times, whether you actually did it or not, is usually NOT, I repeat, is usually NOT the issue.

It is what I call a "details pissing match". The cop has to PROVE you did what you supposedly did. It is the officer's burden to prove beyond any reasonable doubt, that you are, in fact, responsible.

I'll give you a good example:

I had a spectacular win at an appeal back in September, here's how the exchange went:


Me: What was the distance between the point you supposedly witnessed me, to the point where I was pulled over?

Cop: 3 and a half miles.

Me: Actually, it was 3.6 (I know, , it gets better)

Me: ...and how many intersections are there within this 3.6 mile stretch, in other words, how many different roads can one access, from this 3.6 mile stretch, or even come into this 3.6 mile stretch?

Cop: a couple.

Me: 16 (there were others, but I've shortened it to illustrate the point)

I won right there because I was able to provide more details.

Basically, he could not prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, I was in fact the same person he initially spotted. There are LOTS of yellow sportbikes out there... :lol:

It's all in the DETAILS.

In your case, he said you ran a red light. If you sit down and think about it, you will find all sorts of angles/holes you can work. For example, make him state PRECISELY where he saw you, at what point did he determine you ran the light, where you halfway underneath the light, were you already through it and he just assumed you ran it? Where did he observe you from? Across the street? A mile away behind 3 cars? I think you get the idea...

Don't let the State "roll" you, it's their JOB to prove their accusation, it's your RIGHT to defend yourself. If you can "out-detail" them, they have not done their job properly (or you're a badass that can outsmart cops B) ), and you should never, ever, let anyone accuse you of being "responsible" unless they prove it to the highest degree possible. I don't care if God himself came down as a witness, I'd still fight it.

 

gah! no! duke is the RIGHT answer!!

YEP, that's the ticket... pardon the pun! DH used to do this when he did a lot of driving, got plenty of warnings but no tickets!

 

#$*&(^)(*$% wireless connection...

sorry, double post.

 

Court dates are usually set by the court, as in 7 days, or the next tuesday morning after 7 full days, etc. Cops don't set court dates. (At least not usually)

 

Good story...in fact,it is the most likely to get you off. All you have to do is create some reasonable doubt, and the Judge is obliged to find you "not guilty".

 

MS:
"I've said this a million times, whether you actually did it or not, is usually NOT, I repeat, is usually NOT the issue."**




**Does not apply to persons with a conscience who have no problem owning up when they are legitimately busted.

 

Question is, would the State ever extend you the same courtesy?

Not my fault the cop didn't take enough notes... :lol:

 

Hey MS, come to Kettering sometime this year and let me catch you......I would enjoy the sparring in court...may the best man win.

 

Uh, we're talking about the times when you yourself KNOW you are guilty, are we not?

 

In a heartbeat...

Can I bring a camera for when you lose?

:lol:

 

Sure..there are a lotta guys here that would give you an award :lol:

It would make my year. Actually, I have lost before, once, in 1992 :lol: :lol:

 

The question still applies. Do you really think the State, or any other entity that decides to bring charges upon you would simply admit any wrong doing on their part if such existed?

Thing is, that's not really the point anyway.

Personally, I value myself enough to not let some schmuck simply say I'm guilty without backing it up to the highest degree. If he ain't bright enough, detailed enough, whatEVER enough, not my problem.

 

What Daniel said.

Be a man. Take responsibility. I think I've had my fill of ducking responsibility, avoiding consequences etc (I teach Junior High). You say you didn't come to a complete stop? Then...you didn't abide by the requirements under the vehicle code, did you? It says a lot about a person whether they admit their mistake, take responsibility and accept the consequences or whether they spend their time whining, avoiding, finger-pointing, complaining and whatever. Time to get out of Junior High and join the adult world.

If you want to explain Prius driving techniques, I suggest you go to the hearing and plead guilty with explanation. Then tell them about the time of day, road conditions, weather, lack of traffic, Prius driving techniques, whatever you want. Then let whoever is listening (in my area it's usually an assitant DA of some kind) decide if it's worth the paperwork and effort to have you pay or let you go. I think you'll do better being a responsible adult explaining your actions than trying to be a wise-nice person, lawyer-wannabee.

I did this with a parking meter fine. It was Saturday and my band was participating in the city's Martin Luther King Jr. Parade downtown. I fed the meter all it would take but couldn't very well stop in the middle of the parade and run back and feed the meter. Meter only lasts 2 hours, parade was four. And it was Saturday. And I wasn't sure if that would count as a holiday or not since it was a city sponsored parade. So I went to the hearing, admitted the meter ran out, explained why and then I showed them the picture of me and my band in full uniform marching in the parade. The guy laughed and said "Wow, third show and tell this morning." Then he dismissed the ticket.

 

Just tonight I was working a traffic complaint (you know, resident says cars are always speeding down their street) and I watched a car coming down the street at 35 (in a 25 zone) with the driver staring straight ahead, talking on a cell phone, right by me. Now, I am not hiding, it is a 2 lane residential street, I am in a FULLY marked car. What is THAT all about?

Another lady is doing 49 in a 35 zone, she is the ONLY car coming at me, when I pull her over she SWEARS she was doing the speed limit. I didn't even NEED a radar to know she was going around 50 (been doing this 26 years you know)

PEOPLE, how many times have you just been "zoned" out a moment.......