@$%@$%^ Ticket in Orange County

And how many relevant court appearances have you made since '92?

Then again, 90% of people you're up against are idiots anyway, either intimated by unfamiliarity, or not prepared to a high enough degree... :lol: We've all seen COPS, all they show are the idiots getting busted. To me, a far more interesting version would be one where defendants actually win, or get away, but, of course, it's not too morally viable to broadcast that sort of thing...

Over the last 6 years, I'm batting about a 75% chance of winning anything I get busted for...

...and getting better all the time.

You know what they say, aside from the lawyers, there's only one other demographic that knows as much about the law...

h34r:

 

Ah, yes, Squid, the 'as long as I don't get caught, whatever I do isn't really wrong' philosophy.

If I believed I was innocent, believe it: I would be in there with the best of them, of course! Otherwise, MAN UP!

 

MAN UP? :lol:

Let the cop "man up" and get his sh*t together.

You still haven't really addressed whether or not you think the State would actually extend you the same courtesy if they were wrong in a situation where they accuse you of something or other. Think the state is going to "MAN UP" and risk lawsuits? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, but I don't just let other people say I'm guilty without making them prove it.


And I'm sure you'll love this one:

I only apply this philosphy to anything other than friends or loved ones, personal business deals.

 

So are we supposed to turn ourselves in if we don't get caught? What if the judge dismissed our ticket, should we still pay it?

 

Well, if I knew I was guilty, I wouldn't even fight the citation, I would, and have, just paid the fine. So a judge dismissing it isn't very likely.

To be honest, I had an attitude somewhat like Squid's when I was younger (no, that is NOT intended to call Squid immature or anything like that). I like to think I am a little more enlightened now. There is only one 'right thing' to do, however much you are able to rationalize. I guess maybe I am just trying to be the person my little boy thinks I am. [music swells, focus blurs, cue voice-over listing side effects]


PS

I know YOU"LL love this: I don't even cheat on my taxes, nor do I mind paying them!

 

That's nice and all, but, with all due respect, that ain't the way the world works when it comes to traffic citations, and a lot of other situations. I would not let anyone simply accuse me of being guilty unless they could prove it. IMHO, it's setting you up to get, well, raped. Has it ever occurred to you there are times when the cop is wrong? Or, the picture they painted wasn't quite right? Will you actually let yourself get accused of something or other simply because someone else says so? To me, it's also a matter of self-worth and respect. Never, ever, let anyone accuse you without being able to back it up to the HIGHEST degree.

 

Neither do I...

...and not one thing is inflated on my resume either.

 

Again, OF COURSE IF I THINK THE COP IS WRONG I WILL FIGHT IT. Are you trying to say that because you get pulled over for a rolling stop, you suddenly have the inability to remember whether or not YOU DID IT? You automatically have to go to court and make the court prove it to decide whether you are guilty? Yes, I know that you are not *legally* guilty until conviction, which you can try to fight it, but that doesn't mean OJ didn't actually DO IT! See my point? My point is that if I know I am guilty, that's good enough for me. I don't need to waste time and money that the municipality doesn't have to waste jumping through hoops.
I do understand what you are saying, the burden of proof is on them, if you choose to make them prove it. If I know I am guilty, I don't. I think we are just talking on parallel tracks.

On the resume note, did you see the latest? Radio Shack CEO has no verifiable degrees, despite his resume? I have to put up with random drug testing, but they don't even make a couple of phone calls to verify their freakin' CEO's credentials? Weird. Give him an A for balls, though I guess!

 

But *you* know you're guilty.

Avoiding responsibility for an act *you* know you're guilty of puts you in the same company as Kenneth Rice, Jeffery Skilling, Ken Lay and Tom de Lay. Well, maybe not Tom since he can't conceive of ever being guilty of anything. (What a sad, petty, little man. Bullies are so pathetic.)

At least Randy "Duke" Cunningham saved the taxpayers some $ (finally), admitted his guilt and took his punishment like a man.

Notice I have made every effort NOT to make a Dick Cheney joke.

 

I tried to clear that up within prior posts, when it comes to stuff like traffic citations, I'll fight it all the way, because I believe that most traffic citations are simply for revenue generation, legalized extortion, if you will. The original poster mentioned something about no one being around, he wasn't endangering anybody, so he went. He likley posed no threat to anyone, and got a ticket for it, now his insurance will likely go up too. Is that fair? No.

Yes, I know, who am I do decide, who am I to make that judgment call. Well, I do. Remember, if the law said you should jump off a bridge, would you do it? Again, I know that traffic citations are mostly revenue generators, nothing more, and I do not feel I should be penalized for ridiculous citations simply because "the law is the law", or because Joe-Schmo cop says so. On top of that, I've seen how some cops treat people, I've witnessed A LOT of their tactics, which are FAR less ethical than anything I've ever done. Through my experience over the years, I'd say 20% of cops are unethical a-holes who WILL lie, cheat, attempt to intimidate, and anything else just to bust someone for something. I have even caught a cop LYING at an appeal hearing. If there's one thing a cop can't stand, is being made to look like a fool in front of a Judge (particularly when their fellow officers are waiting in the wings), for that reason alone some will try almost ANYTHING to avoid the embarassment.

This is pretty much why I run everything up the flagpole, so to speak.

Now, obviously, when it comes to family members, loved ones, personal business deals, etc., I own up. I think there's a time and place to selectively apply such tactics, far more importantly though, the USE of these tactics, should be guided by ethical behavior, THIS is where the men you listed above have failed.

 

I think it's all about the cell phone. A couple years ago, I was stopped at a red light, and when traffic started moving again, the woman who had been stopped in the lane to my left and most of a car length behind me drove straight into my driver's side door. The first thing she said (after the exchange of "are you okay"s) was that she had been talking on the phone and hadn't seen me.

(The story has a happy ending -- no one was hurt, the other driver was insured and nice enough to admit that the accident was her fault, and my then-8-year-old Saturn looked better after it was fixed than it had before the accident).

 

So if you look down at your speedometer and see you are traveling over the speed limit you're going to turn yourself in, right? After all why do you need to have a cop give you a citation to be a man?

We're talking legally guilty aren't we? You're innocent until PROVEN guilty.

 

Fortunately, the design of the Prius is such that it's easy to remain aware of how fast you're driving.

 

I assume you are implying you never ever go over the speed limit. If you are, I suggest you don't use that as a defense if you are wrongly accused of speeding.

 

The State is evil. We are agreed on that. But does that excuse reckless driving? And in most jurisdictions, the traffic cops are consciencious about doing their job properly. The courts exist so that people who honestly feel they are innocent can have a place to be heard. But when you bring frivolous cases, or try to worm out of something you're really guilty of, you help to bog down the system and make it less effective, and in doing so, you make the streets less safe because it becomes harder to punish reckless drivers.

I am probably one of the most skeptical people you're going to find when it comes to the law and the so-called justice system. But traffic law is one of the few areas when I say that the law is there to protect us, and you make yourself and all of us less safe when you undermine it.

 

I don't agree the State is evil. The cops give tickets based on quotas sometimes so you can't use the argument that they are somehow justified all the time to give a ticket. You are using the term "reckless driving" out of context. Drifting through a red light while making a right turn with no traffic around is not reckless. We had van cams here for awhile that would ticket you for a few mph over the speed limit. It caused more traffic problems because any time someone saw a white van on the side of the road they would slam on their brakes. The state ended the program because of so many complaints from all the "guilty" and innocent drivers.

We have click it or ticket campaigns every so often. What could be wrong with that? Guess where the cops concentrate. At the airport where you are being rushed to get moving by the security after picking someone up. You jump in the car, get going and before you buckle up you're pulled over. Great source of revenue.

 

My beef is that it is simply impossible to drive safely in Los Angeles and not violate any laws. For about a year, I was vehement about stopping at stop signs when making a right turn, having been given a ticket for a 5mph rolling stop. I got rear-ended twice, once chewed out by the offender who yelled, "whaddaya stopping for? There's nobody there!"

Choice of who to cite is arbitrary at best, predatory at worst. Driving safely means blending with the crowd, whether it is speeding or stopping. There isn't one piont on my commute where everyone is going the speed limit. I become a hazard by insisting on MY idea of safe driving if it isn't shared by others.

Your being cited for a minor infraction, while much worse examples likely abound, merely serves to give law enforcement concrete evidence that they are "doing something" in response to a probable citizen complaint, or a recent accident. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time, nothing more. As a result, you feel persecuted and want to fight back.

But it rarely works, and when it's happened to me, I rationalize it by realizing I have made worse mistakes and not been caught, so maybe it evens out. I pay, go to traffic school, and move on. I getg a ticket about once every 5-8 years, so it isn't a burden.

I blend in, be safe, avoid dangers, even if it is sometimes an infraction.