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Time for a new traction battery

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by don_chuwish, Jan 7, 2023.

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  1. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Our 2007 has been getting used a lot less since we got the new Prius Prime (Nov. '21). Only being driven 2-3 times per month. Not sure if that contributed, but at about 180K miles it finally popped the red triangle a few minutes into a drive. My wife was able to drive it back home and I've since been able to do some diags.

    P0A80 and P3018 codes, looks like blocks 7 and 8 gone bad.

    IMG_3388.PNG IMG_3389.PNG

    I'm not against a bit of DIY work, but don't want to go down the cell replacement/rebalance path. Haven't yet gotten a quote from my local dealership for a new pack. But I've been looking at the various options:

    New:
    Nexcell Lithium $2,335.41 (incl shipping), 2-year unlimited mile warranty
    DIY install, deal with core yourself

    Toyota $TBD (availability?)

    newpriusbatteries.com $1,888 2-year or 25,000 mile warranty
    free shipping, DIY install, deal with core yourself
    seems like an even more involved DIY, true?

    Refurbs:
    Green Bean $1,694.00 + $175 Lifetime Warranty = $1869
    they install, take away your core

    hybrid2go $1,499.00 incl Lifetime Warranty
    they install, take away your core

    GreenTec Auto $1250, 12 month warranty
    free shipping, DIY install, take core back to them (Portland)
    also a mobile install option but don't have a price quote

    I know the rest of the car is in fantastic shape and can go MUCH longer, so I love the idea of the NetPower Lithium.
    But am also tempted by the simplicity and warranty of hybrid2go, not to mention the lower price.

    If I go with NetPower Lithium, what do people do with their old packs?
     
    #1 don_chuwish, Jan 7, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2023
  2. TinyTim

    TinyTim Active Member

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    Whatever direction you choose to go. Make sure you get the lifetime warranty. Helps with peace of mind and adds resale value. Make sure the lifetime warranty is transferrable.
     
    #2 TinyTim, Jan 7, 2023
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  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Keep it around for "a while" until you're quite certain the replacement is good. Then sell it to somebody who needs a good core, or just wants the cells. There is a market, but it might be slow unless you are near a city. Shipping is very difficult.
     
    #3 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Jan 7, 2023
  4. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Thanks, yes I’m worried because I won’t have much local demand. Would need to eBay (ship) or maybe drive several hours to a prospective buyer.
     
    #4 don_chuwish, Jan 7, 2023
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    is new prius batteries still in business?
     
    #5 bisco, Jan 7, 2023
  6. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Yeah that looks iffy, at least for individual customers. Not really considering them anymore. Thanks.
     
    #6 don_chuwish, Jan 7, 2023
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if i were going to keep the car, i would go for the lithium. but if some extra diy and down time is acceptable, you could save some money with the remanufactured.
    but they won't do as well as new if the car is going to continue to be under used
     
    #7 bisco, Jan 7, 2023
  8. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Thanks, that was one of my unwritten concerns as well. We're holding onto this car for a kid to take over someday. It will continue to be lightly used until that happens so yes, the LIFePO4 is better able to handle idle periods. Honestly I'm also just enamored with the idea of overall performance improvements.
    I need to call the dealership on Monday to confirm my options for a new Toyota pack, but unless they have really compelling prices and availability I'll probably go with Nexcell Lithium.
     
    #8 don_chuwish, Jan 7, 2023
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  9. ammdb

    ammdb Member

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    By far the best value for your old pack is to get the around $1,300 core charge refund when buying a new Toyota pack. Toyota will not accept an after market rebuilt pack as a core.

    As for shipping, the pack is under the weight limit for FedEx or UPS ground. I sold one on eBay and was able to ship this way, but it did arrive damaged. FedEx refunded part of the shipping cost, which I passed on to the buyer. Would have been better protected if I had a crate.

    Note, the Toyota parts department will not ship HV packs, because they are considered hazmat. It is worth shopping around, since prices vary, and if DIY you can save money by finding a cheaper pack within driving distance to pick up.
     
    #9 ammdb, Jan 7, 2023
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  10. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Thanks!
     
    #10 don_chuwish, Jan 8, 2023
  11. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    That is my thinking too. It seems likely that our next car might be electric (not that we are shopping yet), and if so that is the car we would use most on local trips. We would keep the Prius, but driving it only once a week is a death sentence for a NiMH pack, whereas that shouldn't bother an LFP pack much because of the much lower rate of self discharge.

    On the flip side, unfortunately, is that the LFP pack is still quite new, so the long term longevity is a bit of a question mark. So far these have been pretty reliable, but I think the "one iffy module results in several other modules being overcharged and failing" issue will need to be addressed. I'm not going to be surprised if eventually there is a battery control system for it which handles the LFP modules and sends spoofed voltages to the car's NiMH pack control electronics.
     
    #11 pasadena_commut, Jan 8, 2023
  12. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    One thing to note on price, the Dealer and possibly others require a core that has to be returned or you don't get back a core fee. Others, like Project Lithium and New Prius Batteries, let you keep and sell your old battery reducing the total cost.

    There isn't a battery that has the history of reliability behind it like an OEM battery, but that's my 2 cents.
     
    #12 Isaac Zachary, Jan 8, 2023
  13. nemebean

    nemebean Junior Member

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    They just updated my order from late November and bumped the price of the packs on their website so I would say they still are, but they're also still way behind on orders due to supply chain issues. Interestingly, on the website it's not showing backordered anymore though.

    FWIW, the update I got was that my pack is reserved and awaiting pickup from the warehouse. TBD how long that will take. Luckily my current one is not dead yet, just showing signs that it's on the way out, which is why I risked waiting for the backordered battery.
     
    #13 nemebean, Jan 10, 2023
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  14. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    My local dealership just quoted $3790 for a new Toyota pack, installed, 1 year warranty. No option to just buy the pack from them and DIY the install. That's clinched it for me - I'll be going Project Lithium for sure.
     
    #14 don_chuwish, Jan 11, 2023
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  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Sounds like something the service desk would say.

    Did you try the parts counter?
     
    #15 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Jan 11, 2023
  16. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Nah, it's a pretty tight knit small town dealership. I doubt I'd get a different story.
     
    #16 don_chuwish, Jan 11, 2023
  17. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Ordered the Nexcell Lithium pack from projectlithium.com this morning. I can now look forward to a fun DIY weekend in my future.
     
    #17 don_chuwish, Jan 17, 2023
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  18. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    UPS dropped off my box of Nexcell battery blades yesterday evening. So today I tackled the install. I watched Jack's instructional video and referred back to it several times as I went along. Overall it went quite well but I did have some hiccups. A few observations:

    • Taking photos as you go is helpful for reference during re-assembly
    • Keep nuts and bolts organized, I put them in containers labelled for where they came from.
    • I found it easiest to remove both side panels of the cargo area to get at the 4 bolts behind them.
    • Citric acid works much better than vinegar for cleaning the corrosion off the copper bus bars and the nuts.
    • I used a 12v drill/driver with an adjustable clutch set very low to run down the 8mm nuts and screws on the blades, then gently torqued by hand. Leave the powerful impact driver for the 10mm, 12mm, and 14mm stuff.
    • Wear protective gloves when handling the sheet metal - as careful as I was I still lost skin off my knuckles.
    • Don't drop nuts or bolts or plastic clips - you'll waste a lot of time reclaiming them!

    And most importantly, double check everything before putting the pack back in the car. After carefully cleaning the bus bars I somehow missed re-inserting one of them into the plastic retainer. Turned on the car expecting everything to be perfect and just about had a panic. Before realizing my error I sent an email to support asking for help. Then as I was rechecking everything and discovering my error both Peter and Jack were already answering me with good suggestions. Great support on a Saturday evening!
    After I got it all put back together we went for a short test drive and all is well.

    A few photos just for fun.

    One 12mm bolt is black, unlike the rest:
    IMG_3452.jpg

    Cleaning the bus bars with citric acid. About a tbsp of Millard's in that much hot water.
    IMG_3460.jpg

    All back together and ready for first startup....
    IMG_3461.jpg

    What it looked like with one bus bar missing! eeek!
    IMG_3463.PNG

    Fixed, much better!
    IMG_3465.PNG

    The mess you need to be comfortable with for this task....
    IMG_3466.jpg
     
    #18 don_chuwish, Jan 22, 2023
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  19. mpg_numbers_guy

    mpg_numbers_guy Member

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    Any first impressions after installation? Thinking of going this route myself as I have no idea where I could get an OEM battery without paying a stealership to install it. Current battery shows no codes but the SOC drops suddenly to 40% when it reaches down to 50% so I know it probably isn't going to be too much longer for this world.

    Also forgive my ignorance -- is that the Dr. Prius app? What OBD2 connector did you buy to use with it?
     
    #19 mpg_numbers_guy, Jan 22, 2023
  20. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Hope the lithium works out for you. I think keeping a car for future use is typically a bad financial decision. Often people maintain insurance on the car for no good reason while the car severely depreciates and other typical age based problems occur. And then the kid doesn't really want to car.
     
    #20 rjparker, Jan 22, 2023
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