Time for some political discussion...

riskable wrote:

Although I am not a Roman Catholic and I was not there I do think that you are being a little bit unreasonable concerning the nuns. After all what do Christians believe (creation) and what do they not believe (evolution).

riskable wrote:

What about the science of Archaeology? Here is a quote from one website

And I do believe that there is a difference between being religious and being obedient to God (or ones own religion). For example, the scribes and Pharisees were religious but they were not being obedient to God as Jesus says (Matthew 23:2-3) "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do". Jesus also mentions how this will effect others, talking to the scribes and Pharisees (Matthew 23:13) "For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."

And what about Christians that have influenced society for the better? Such as William Wilberforce a Christian who was a member of Parliament in the United Kingdom was a major force for getting rid of slavery in the UK (30 years before the United States) http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/REwilberforce.htm along with other social reforms such as penal reform, medical aid for the poor, education for the deaf, restrictions on the use of child labour, an improvement in the conditions of the Poor Law, and the establishment of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals http://ccfwebsite.com/world_page.php?ID=22.

 

Well, I know what Catholocism teaches... I was a forced pupil for 12 years. I can understand that the nuns didn't like the teaching of evolution--it was against their beliefs. However, what I don't understand is why they would want to stop it being taught in a college preparetory school. Every college requires that students have a basic understanding of science. One of those basics is evolution. Without it, the students will not be properly prepared. When I brought this up at various religion classes, I was either given detention (apparently for questioning it), told they didn't care, or had the nun in question rattle off about everything that they felt was wrong with today's colleges.

I didn't really care that much about what the nuns thought. They were entitled to their opinion, what I *DID* care about was all the poor kids in class with me who just soaked it all in without question. It was a disheartening thing to watch. My most memorable class was a tyrade from one of the nuns about how all gay people are going to hell.

I'm sure the closet gay kids in that class really felt great about themselves after that.

There are many great people that were very devout in various religions. No one can discount that. However, the reason they're great is not because of their religion, but because of their deeds and wisdom. Much wisdom can be found in many religions, but at the same time, there can be found much stupidity. Example: The bible states that adulterers should be put to death.

If people are taught that "all the answers" they seek can be found in a religious text, they're being horribly mislead. Oddly enough, that was the "wisdom" that I was taught since I started Sunday School.

As for archeology proving various aspects of the bible's stories, that's true. I was just watching a documentary last week on the Discovery channel where a group of archeologists unearthed some sort of lost city from the bible. The place existed sure enough, but does that mean the stories surrounding it weren't exaggerated or made up? No. Just because a city burned down suddenly doesn't mean that God did it. As a matter of fact, that's exactly what one of the archeologists said.

It reminds me of The Illiad and The Oddessey. For centuries people believed Homer's tales to be nothing more than great stories. Then, some archeologists unearthed the city of Troy. Over the course of many years, we've discovered that the Trojans really did exist and fought with the Greeks. Does that mean that the mythology within Homer's tales is true? There really are gods? No.

 

See, a person's belief is their own and they have their right to it. Once they try to -force- others, that's where the removal of other's rights occur.

For example: If I believe in Santa Claus, but you don't, does that mean I have the right to rewrite history and everything you encounter in this world to fit my beliefs - removing Jesus in the bible and replacing him with Santa, etc., just because those are my beliefs?

No. Freedom for beliefs can't be one sided. Should the KKK exist still today in America? Absolutely not. Do they have rights, as a group (practicing only non-illegal activities), to exist? Yes. Should people be burning the American flag? No! Should they have the right to do so if they please? Yes. Should idiots in Europe still be claiming and writing books about how Sept 11th didn't happen? No, but again, they have the right to.

As my partner once stated - if it pisses someone off, but brings no harm, freedom needs to allow for it.

Churches have all the power to teach creationism all they want - but should they be forcing it into public schools? No. Conservatives can believe I'm going to hell for what I do with my boyfriend behind closed doors, but should it be illegal? Never.

-m.

 

rflagg wrote:

Here is the quote from riskable that I should have included that I was responding to. Sorry for the miss information that this caused.

I have the impression that he was attending Catholic high school at the time not a Public High School.