Torquenews compares Prius Prime to BMW i3-REx

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by bwilson4web, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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  2. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Ha ha Bob, you really think they would have had some enlightened revelation beyond what they summarize from the manufacturer as far as technical details? At least Consumer's Reports drives it for 2,000 miles before taking it to their test track and then writing about it. PriusChat (and other user boards) wouldn't even exist if the "automotive" magazines actually went in depth about a car like i3 or Prius Prime.

    But back your comments, yeah they do make an interesting comparison. I was a little more hungry about quietness, seating comfort and actual ride (not handling though I'm quite shocked that they thought the Prime was only a smidgen not as good as the i3) between the two.


    Unsupervised!
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Outside of Argonne Labs reports, Car and Driver are the next best for technical content. But my favorite, the Edmunds Smackdown series apparently are no more:
    • Argonne Labs - with 0.1 second resolution, outstanding fuel/energy consumption data. I can and have replicated their results in 'real life.'
    • Car and Driver - their skid pan, G-meter, and general vehicle review are great for whole car performance.
    • Edmunds Spackdown - real-life, three day, three phase, 3-4 car, head-to-head test drives.
    I think January would be an excellent time to run 3-4 plug-ins on a head-to-head test:
    • Prius Prime
    • BMW i3-REx
    • Volt
    • Ford C-MAX (or Fusion plug-in)
    Bob Wilson
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    two base primes = one loaded i-3.:cool:
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Uh, the ratio is reversed ... it if exists at all.

    First state the mission requirements (i.e., who is it meant to support).

    Then list the mandatory and optional (or weighted) requirements.

    Then we can assign a weighting to each requirement and add up the score of each vehicle. ... Basic system engineering.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    2 Prius Prime = 1 BMW i3 REx ...

    Toyota Prius Prime Plus $27,100
    BMW i3-REx Teraworld $51,045

    $27,100 * 2 = $54,200

    alternatively,

    1 Prius Prime = 5 BMWs...

    Prius Prime range = 640 miles
    BMW i3 REx range = 124 miles

    124 * 5 = 620 miles
     
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  7. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    As "objective non-biased" readers, would you help me decide who the winner is in the following categories?

    initial cost?
    Running costs?
    Passive safety?
    Active safety?
    Passengers' room?
    Luggage room?
    Charge Deplete mode efficiency?
    Charge Sustain mode efficiency?
    EV range?
    Range for one charge plus one tank?

    Sometimes you do not need to do weighting!
     
    #7 giora, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
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  8. civicdriver06

    civicdriver06 Active Member

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    Although the Prime has a few drawbacks (but also great gains !),compared with it's none plug-in brother,Prime is the clear winner for me !
    BMW ?
    You at least pay 10.000 $ just for the name !
    When the competitors have depleted their main battery they literally turn into normal gas vehicles,at least they are not much better when it comes down to fuel efficiency!
     
    #8 civicdriver06, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the problem with running costs are the volatility of the oil market. as bob said, you don't have that with electrons, but gas going up will actually hurt prime, although owners will probably appreciate it.
     
  10. giora

    giora Senior Member

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  11. GT4Prius

    GT4Prius Active Member

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  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    There is a risk of using just purchase price as a decade and a half of Prius skeptics have claimed non-hybrids to be a better buy (Yugo anyone?) Still I understand so I used the same approach applied in September-October 2005 ... buy used.

    When the local Toyota dealers were whacking the Gen-2 with $2-4,000 mark-ups, I bought a used Gen-1 Prius, $17.4k with 49,000 miles. So let's see if that is an option today with the BMW i3-REx.

    Source: BMW i3 Range Extender | eBay
    • VIN:WBY1Z4C52EV273300 - use BMW VIN checker (ask Mr. Google) for options
    • Mileage: 2,249
    • Warranty to: July 2018
    • Battery to: July 2024
    • $29.9k (same as I paid for mine)
    This is a price NOT dependent upon having enough Federal and/or State tax savings to bring a Prius Prime into the $30k range. So non-incentive states and those who don't have that sort of Federal tax rate, this is a good buy.

    Having driven our BMW i3-REx: 463 miles over the 2,800 ft., I-40 pass; 700 miles Huntsville-to-Stillwater OK, and; 700 miles back. I've always driven at 65 mph in our Prius and pre-Prius cars. Getting 39 instead of 52 MPG is not so hot but affordable. Then arriving with a 72 mile range EV. Like today:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    The Prius Prime looks to be a good car ... along with the Volt ... along with the Ioniq (if it ever arrives.) But each has been optimized for what matches different buyer requirements.

    Personally, I like EV range with gas backup. Others will want efficient highway with some EV range. There are all ranges in between. So pick your poison and be happy.

    So we have a 2010 Prius that can be used for highway travel and easily match the Prius Prime. But then we arrive with a hybrid, not an EV. Worse, one that lacks the safety features and dynamic cruise control. So it makes sense to take the highway MPG hit, use the dynamic cruise control, the safety features, and be EV when we arrive. Others are free to choose a different mix.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #12 bwilson4web, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't follow you bob, base prime is 27k before $4,500. fed credit.

    any idea of the msrp on the used i-3? i'm wondering about depreciation after tax credits.

    talking about comparison to i-3, not sales. as gas goes up, prime operating expense goes up, i-3 stays the same.
     
    #13 bisco, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2016
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Sorry but the base is not close to my loaded BMW i3-REx:
    Thanks! I had read something else but this corrected the record: Prime Mover: Toyota Maxes Out Tech and Style in the World’s Best-Selling Hybrid to Create the 2017 Prius Prime | Toyota

    2017 Prius Prime Prices
    MODEL# GRADE MSRP
    1235 Prius Prime Plus $27,100 (No USB port, no remote AC)
    1237 Prius Prime Premium $28,800 (Close to my loaded BMW i3-REx)
    1239 Prius Prime Advanced $33,100 (Close to my loaded BMW i3-REx)
    All prices listed above exclude the Delivery, Processing, and Handling (DPH) fee.

    I'm reminded of the Macintosh angst. Buy the latest hotness even though there are rumors of a better one coming. But I didn't have this option the first week of May ... nor even the last week of May. You have to live with the facts and data as they exist the day you pays.

    Upon closer inspection of the different Prius Prime grades, my loaded BMW i3-REx at $29.9k vs $28.8-33.1k Prius Prime Premium/Advanced (plus some overhead,) I don't mind the correction except to point out my BMW i3-REx is on the driveway and about to run an errand. Good, fast, cheap: pick two. <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
    #14 bwilson4web, Oct 10, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
  15. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    No doubt, except that i3REx operating costs go up as well but at much lower rate. Depending on owner driving profile, break even point could be quite high.
    Putin's recent announcement of freezing level of oil export with possible lowering, following OPEC similar announcement a week ago may mark the change in gas prices sooner than some think.
     
    #15 giora, Oct 11, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    While checking on the MSRP price, I found the product specifications: 2017 Prius Prime Product Information | Toyota

    This gives me a table I can compare to my BMW i3-REx although some specs are a little 'light.' For example, this document does list the charging rate in kW. In contrast, my BMW i3-REx handles up to 7.2 kW @240VAC (i.e., L2).

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Prime's charger is rated at 3.3 kW according to Toyota publications.
     
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  18. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Wait, wait, wait...the base Prime doesn't have an USB port.
    My pedestrian Sonic, without the upgraded radio nor LCD screen, has an USB port.​
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ouch, that would be crazy.
     
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