Toyota admits being hurt by Tesla, gives tepid response

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by el Crucero, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Toyota admits that the Tesla model 3 has hurt Prius sales in the US. But they are paralyzed to respond with a new BEV product for fear of cannibalizing their ICE product line. Toyota is between a rock and a hard spot with their current marketing model. It is only going to get worse as Tesla expands the model 3 to European and Asian markets and adds the model Y, model Pickup, and Semi . Couple that with all the Chinese and European manufacturing introducing BEV products, and Toyota is in a world of hurt. C'mon Toyota, be creative!

    Tesla Model 3 is affecting Prius sales, admits Toyota - though still not convinced on EVs - Electrek
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    “(Tesla CEO Elon Musk) has excited a lot of people about (battery) EVs. I worry a little bit we are over-stimulated in our belief that (battery) EVs are going to take over the world quickly. Today, if you look at just alternative(-powertrain) vehicles (hybrid, plug-in hybrid, BEV- or fuel-cell) there are 94 nameplates out there. And they sold about 600,000 (units) last year. But only seven sold more than 2,000 a month.” - Lentz

    Toyota is still focused on hydrogen. Big sales of BEVs don't seem to matter as long as their FCEV are low.
     
  3. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    He also said that Toyota is going to abandon fuel cells for personal vehicles and concentrate on building commercial trucks with fuel cells.....where Toyota believes that it is the government's responsibility to build hydrogen refueling infrastructure! A recipe for a Toyota disaster.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That's a big issue I have with the companies pushing hydrogen; claiming the fueling infrastructure isn't their concern. Yes, the early automobile companies didn't make the fuel or distribute it, but they chose fuels that were reasonably available for their engines. Maybe refueling wasn't superconvenient from a dedicated pump, but those that wanted a car didn't have to wait for a station to be built locally before they could get a car.

    As for commercial vehicles, this is where Toyota should have started with hydrogen. Natural gas is still cheaper and easier, and solid oxide fuel cells can use it when they become ready.
     
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  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    know your audience
     
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  7. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Toyota = frog (in water)
    Tesla = cool water being heated

    Toyota NA CEO Lentz: the water is fine, come on in

    Mike
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    so Lentz wants to call Model 3 a new market .... yet they are eating the lunch of the Prius Civic leaf & bmw 3's. Does that mean the people that were driving those would have really wanted something better? .... that their present ride didn't give them?
    Does it make any difference if it's a new market versus a better Market?
    .
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Underfoot

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    I wonder how the percents break down?
     
  10. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Yes, model 3 hurting Prius sales is old news, but Lentze' public response is new news!
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i maintain that toyota does not care about losing prius sales. probably makes many of their dealers very happy.

    a lot of back slapping going on at those meetings.

    given the family heir's response to electrification, prius engineer's must feel like the redheaded stepchild
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    He might have joined the FCEV group.
     
  13. Usle

    Usle Member

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    So 1/2 of registered 3's in the US are in Cailifornia, what are the chances that 1/2 of those Cailifornia cars are owned by Tesla employees.
    Quarter three numbers were skewed(Musk had suppliers give back 2018 payments and extend credit for the rest of the 18' year) "skewed", quarter four numbes aren't being released?
    9000 people being fired, today.
    Hmmm.

    While Toyota and VW remain world leaders, ho-hum.
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Toyota does and they are well aware of how Tesla's current draw is completely isolated from ordinary consumers.

    As for the cannibalizing, that's true for all legacy automakers... most of whom are afraid to even mention the issue. At least Toyota is setting the stage by phasing out traditional vehicles.
     
    #14 john1701a, Jan 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
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  15. litesong

    litesong Active Member

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    Saw an article on 10 Tesla advantages for the future. "el Crucero just mentioned one of these advantages, that Tesla builds & sells NO ICE vehicles, whose sales they must protect. It is obvious that Toyota is stalemated with this "disadvantage" that Tesla does NOT have.
     
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  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    really? Wow! that means they must have over 20,000 employees at their manufacturing plant .... a small City. No WONDER they had layoffs - sheesh.
    Got any other insights? And how is YOUR car manufacturing plant coming along

    is Toyota leading the way in phaseout? If phase-out's purpose is to make way for electric cars, then man ... they got a ways to catch up to the other guys.
    La Cross .... CT6 ..... Volt ..... Cruze ..... XTS .... Impala.
    Slash and burn for the GM Gas users, and the Chevy Bolt production growing & growing. Didn't check .... but how many Toyota models are being phased-out?
    .
     
    #16 hill, Jan 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  17. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    They are in the order listed, (large to small)
    no idea on percentages.

    My guess is that Toyo views Prius buyers as atypical and not part of the audience thus Prius owners trading to model 3’s are lost causes anyway?
     
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  18. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Some of us pointed out years ago that GM would be even worse off having chosen to push Volt, wasting tax-credits on an approach that didn't compel their own customers to switch.

    Addressing how to change the status quo is something Toyota is aggressively working on. Giving Prius AWD and pushing RAV4 hybrid is clear evidence of trying to get their customers to accept letting go of the past.

    So, the assessment of "stalemate" isn't accurate.
     
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Changing the definition of phaseout to fit your narrative is just plain wrong.

    You know it has meant to end the production of traditional vehicles.
     
    #19 john1701a, Jan 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    ok that works - but it's still an honest inquiry regarding what models Toyota is phasing out - or 'ending production' (is that somewhat of a greyish distinction). or Lexus .... i haven't heard - but the web is as good a source as any - unless someone knows already.

    [EDIT]
    i find discontinued over the past few years - the following Toyotas;
    Venza - Scion tC coupe - Matrix - Rav4ev - FJ Cruiser - CT200h (maybe still sold elsewhere)

    I don't see any correlation between the 2 manufacturers discontinued models - other than both have killed off ~ ½ dozen or so, turning on how far back you go.
    .
     
    #20 hill, Jan 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
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