Featured Toyota apparently abandons the BEV market for now.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by markabele, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    see? .... the survey was unanimous !!

    .
     
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  3. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  4. Sillywizard

    Sillywizard Junior Member

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    #124 Sillywizard, Jan 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  5. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That narrative here is pretty sad. Several automakers are diversifying with fuel-cell exploration and pursuing EV offerings. Those that engineer with press-release get lots of credit. Those who don't get an "anti" label.

    No one cried foul about how GM squandered their subsidies on a niche rollout as a distraction from actually electrifying their fleet. It worked well too. That resistance to delivering a plug-in SUV or Pickup went completely unnoticed.

    In other words, some here really need to reevaluate priorities. The group-think has consequences.
     
  7. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Tesla does market just in other non traditional means. People are not buying cars, they all want SUV's and trucks. Tesla better build some real SUVs and trucks soon, or their sales will see a decline as well.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    people here care about toyota and what toyota is doing. if they cared about gm, they'd be over at gmchat complaining about gm.
     
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  9. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    No offense but you are wrong.

    The Volt has had a continuous campaign from inception till after launch of “Government motors” wasting tax payer money via vi subsizes/tax credits. The mention of niche may not have been there but the effect was the same.

    A few weeks after the Volts initial concept an entire Volt hoax movement and website formed.

    I have never seen such a large anti car campaign against a specific model form before the car was even being sold.

    It toned down slightly after year 1 of sales but a strange marriage of flat earthers and green living folks formed an anti volt campaign of rhetoric and misinformation with an emphasis on the tax credit.

    These people assumed anyone who bought a Volt was entitled and taking advantage of the system. While a leaf or Tesla were fine to take the same credit.

    I myself had a waitress at a restaurant mansplain how ignorant I was to buy a brand new $17,500 car that gets free electricity at work and 2 years free maintenance.

    Having lived through the early anti Prius era I can say that the anti GM rhetoric is much more polarized, folks who don’t like a Prius just think it’s slow and looks bad like a minivan, the anti Volt folks have the power of government handout anger and will approach you inflamed and visually angered by the car.

    Luckily most folks like this can’t identify a Volt from any other car but I’ve had a few angry ideots confront me, usually a guy in a Saturn or a Pickup.

    I have no doubt some Prii have encountered these folks but in my case it was always while I was parked and not road rage
     
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  10. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Yes, it is called, "word of mouth."
    Look for the introduction of the model Y and model pickup later this year
    Yes, Tesla's ICE cars are not selling well.
     
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  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Not with respect to scope. You are correct about the initial history, but there's more that followed... which is what I'm referring to... the more recent choices.
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    In 2018 we will deliver a new station every two weeks on average. All in all, 100 hydrogen filling stations will be built by 2019.

    My calendar says it is already 2019. So how many stations were built in 2019?

    Bob Wilson
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Hydrogen cars look about as practical in France and Spain, as in California.

    Hydrogen infrastructure will cost more than it will for BEVs. It will take billions of dollars and time to build it in the US. Individual states do not have the budgets like individual European countries, which will hamper any country wide roll out here. Complaints can be found in the Tesla section about the Superchargers not being common enough, and they aren't needed for local travel.

    Some serious questions about Europe.
    How many hydrogen cars are available to the public? What is the cost?
    How is the hydrogen for those stations being made? Are users being charged directly for it? Is fuel part of the purchase/lease price of the car?

    Does Tesla have an advertising budget, whose expense gets rolled into the price of the cars?

    What exactly is a 'real SUV'? The growth of SUV sales has not been in Tahoes, but in Rav4s and CR-Vs; the SUVs that were once the compact models. They, and their crossover siblings, are far more tall wagon than truck these days. Hell, Subarus are wagons but in name.

    Still plenty of complaining about GM here. Not that they don't deserve it, but they also don't get credit for some things, like the improvements in the gen2 Volt.

    You forgot to mention that there was a Congress critter that was vocally anti GM and Volt.
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    well ya ... the oil Lobby only wants the perks going to them. Nothing changes. If it hadn't been for his corruption, the new presidents' appointed EPA head (practically came right off the oilfield. Oh the irony.) would still be doing slash-&-burn to clean cars' regulatory progress. But he had to step down. No worries, there are plenty of other oilies willing to dive into the bureaucratic pool of goo.
    .
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Hummmm, can we convince Russia and the 'Red' states to go in on hydrogen fool cells?

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. Sillywizard

    Sillywizard Junior Member

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    When it comes to H2, there certainly are a number of mouth-breathers and de facto flat-earthers in this thread!

    Nano aluminium offers fuel cells on demand – just add water | New Scientist

    Why Hydrogen's Comeback Could Make Elon Sweat

    Army taking applications for nano-powder, clean energy source | TechLink

    Edit: Investigating further, the U.S. Army’s invention is nothing more than enabling the reaction
    3*H20 + 2*Al = 3*H2 + Al2O3 to occur to completion without the addition of additional chemicals or energy. It has no benefits for the shift to a hydrogen economy.
     
    #136 Sillywizard, Jan 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Fair enough, we think hydrogen advocates have no chemistry and economic understanding.

    You take a 2L, plastic bottle, add sodium hydroxide, and water. Shake to dissolve the sodium hydroxide. Then take a piece of aluminum foil and roll it into a rod that fits through the mouth of the bottle. Put in a cotton or paper plug to block the spray, and put a balloon on the mouth. The aluminum will decompose making hydrogen gas.

    Elon doesn't have time to worry about 'fool cells.' He is shipping Teslas to Europe.

    Good for them. But I notice these refugees carry solar cells:
    [​IMG]
    I doubt they are making hydrogen with the electricity. Actually they use them to charge their cell phone batteries, radio, and maybe a LED night light.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  18. Sillywizard

    Sillywizard Junior Member

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    Yep, you’re right. When I dug a little more, it becomes apparent that the U.S. Army’s invention is nothing more than allowing the reaction to go to completion without the addition of energy or chemicals. No benefits for the transition to a hydrogen economy.
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    This is the hydrogen equivalent of an Al-air battery for a BEV.
     
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  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    hmmmmm - I wonder how many tons of aluminum foil I would have 2 trailer around to get a couple hundred miles ...& don't go being a Debbie Downer about all the electricity it takes to refine aluminum.

    .
     
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