Toyota CEO comments on GM

What if what if what if. Arguments that require you to spawn off an alternate 1990 timeline aren't very good arguments. You want to characterize Toyota as a morally and ethically bankrupt corporation because in a hypothetical situation, they would choose to make trucks first. The fact of the matter is that they (and all of the other asian manufacturers) didn't choose that way, so your point is invalid.

The fact of the matter is that Honda, Toyota, Nissan... the Japanese the majority ( >50%) of the vehicles they sell are not trucks but cars. This is a fact, not a hypothetical situation like you posit.

The Japanese carmakers are benefitting in spades from a decision that was made decades ago to pursue smaller vehicles and make that their business.

The Domestics, on the other hand, pursued the truck, and eventually they made a short term killing on the rise of the SUV, but are suffering from that decision in the here and now.

Try all you might to paint Toyota as a morally and ethically bankrupt entity... but even if you succeed, GM is no better than Toyota.

In my opinion, Honda and Toyota especially are way more green than GM or Ford because Honda and Toyota have made their business selling a diverse line of vehicles, while GM and Ford have very openly narrowed their focus on the biggest and most wasteful vehicles on the road.

While they are trying to open up other markets, the domestics continue to push their truck and SUV business as MOST IMPORTANT. From my perspective, the GM or Ford vision of a perfect market would be everyone would own a big SUV.

Toyota and honda are more car focused, and the facts clearly show this. They are easily more diverse in the vehicles that people actually buy from them. That gives them a lot of points in my book over GM, Ford, and DCX.

Bear in mind that this is just my opinion... i clearly don't like trucks and SUVs and feel like GM, Ford, and DCX are throwing their massive weight behind a wasteful market, and have nothing to offer me and my needs.

 

If you compare the 3.5L V6 Malibu to the 3.0 or 3.3 L Camry, the Malibu comes out on top.

However, the Camry wins for the 4 cylinder model, and against the 3.9L V6 Malibu. Moreover, at each comparison, the Camry is cleaner on the CARB scale, with the Malibu coming it an LEV II on the V6s while Camry can do ULEV II.

Good find Somerville. I should also point out that the Camry is available in a SULEV in 4 cylinder version for the atlantic and west coast states, while the Malibu does not.

 

And a WHOLE lot better emission profile in the CARB compliant states.


Malorn, what GM vehicle would you like to compare against the Camry Hybrid ?

Against the Highlander hybrid ?

Against the Prius ?

NO ?

Ok, list all GM cars with at least SULEV emissions

Now, list all GM vehicles with combined EPA mpg of at 35 mpg. No ?

Then, list all GM vehicles with combined EPA mpg of 30 mpg. No ?? Remember, about 40% of GM vehicles are CARS, not trucks.

Then at least contribute to the discussion by reporting GM CO2, landfill, and VOC per vehicle produced pollution amounts.

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I'll wait

 

Malorn continually refers to the Malibu example because he claims it to be the descriptive of how the public is brainwashed into thinking that Toyota is cleaner... and that the Chevy gets better mileage.

That is true only in one case, comparing V6s.

Moreover, Toyota's cars *ARE* much cleaner if you consider the CARB rating. Toyota offers many cars that are ULEV II, SULEV II, and now a growing number of cars with AT-PZEV.

So the public's view that Camry is a cleaner car over the Malibu is absolutely correct in the sense of the externality of emissions.

 

From fuelEconomy.gov ..

I figured if Detroit can compete at all, it would be in trucks. I have been told that the Ford Ranger is the most Enviro truck around -- so here it is, compared to a Toyota Tacoma. Pitiful. Emissions in diesel range. (Ford on the left of the graphic)

 

They offer more vehicles, but who *sells* more vehicles (ie # of vehicles sold per year) getting over 30+mpg?


Tell me about the number of vehicles that GM sold (volume) over 30 MPG, and then do the same for Toyota.
THAT is much more important than the number of models that GM can rebrand.

 

You have been reading too much GM propaganda without paying attention. Your factoid is based on HIGHWAY ONLY EPA. Try again, taking city EPA into account.

 

Ok, Comparing v6 models the Malibu looks better.... suprisingly good actually... So I agree it's not a bad v6 something many americans like....

 

Malorn...

emissions plays a big part in Toyota's green reputation. You can see clearly that they (along with Honda and other manufacturers) have been pushing hard to get cars meeting ULEV or better.

A quick check of some of Chevy's cars show that while they do pretty well with fuel economy, they are behind the times in emissions.

 

Malorn, I guess FuelEconomy.gov is not working for you these days.
The graphic below is taken from them, showing the top four Chevy vehicles. From left to right: Cobat. Malibu, HHR, and another Malibu. I pulled out the best automatics, and did not include the rebadged Daihatsu. The BEST Chevy combined EPA is 27. TWENTY SEVEN.
No vehicle gets better than 6/10 on the pollutants scale, which means they pollute FIVE to TEN times as much as as a SULEV in Nox and NMOG.

 

And combined EPA mileage?

Anyway, mileage is important, but really we're just splitting hairs here about mileage numbers. GM's cars in the same class are within a few MPG of Toyota's, so GM does respectably.

However, I must press again... Emissions! What is GM doing about emissions? Why, in the year 2006, do they have so many vehicles than only manage to squeak by with LEV ratings?

What are they planning on doing about this?

I can tell you what Toyota is planning on doing... very clearly. They are going with Hybrid technology. Toyota's hybrid technology, for all of the hype about mileage, was designed to fundamentally reduce emissions first and foremost.

The result? Prius is AT-PZEV... Even the Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX400h meet SULEV emissions.

Toyota has made very clear their plans on hybridizing all of their vehicles. This means that all of the vehicles that you see listed at ULEV II on fueleconomy.com will be SULEV IIs at least in hybrid versions. VERY significant. This will mean a marked improvement in emissions across all vehicle classes... including trucks.

You have to admit that GM is way behind in this area.

 

How come no matter how the subject starts (which contain Toyota/GM in the same title), it turns into a smoke & mirrors rehash?

 

Yawn .. ok

 

Hybrid technology isn't just a stop gap solution... it's a *transitional* technology. The development of Hybrid drives like the Toyota system also benefits fuel cell development.

while "visionaries" and GM corporate execs pat themselves on the back for being smarter than Toyota about hybrid cars, they continue to put the worst polluting vehicles on the road today.

Just because they don't believe that hybrid technology is the way to go does not give them a free pass on the fact that their vehicles fail to meet more stringent emissions standards. The longer they keep putting LEV class vehicles on the road, the worse it is for their image.

The fact that Toyota, Honda, Ford actually put hybrid vehicles on the road while continually ensuring that their non hybrid-vehicles emissions meet those stringent standards make them MUCH greener than GM in my book.