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Featured Toyota changing strategy?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Oct 24, 2022.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    One YouTube story is not enough … call it a news rumor. But a Toyota press release or financial report would be enough.

    I have long wondered if putting battery packs in the ICE and fuel tank volumes would work at least as good as the Bolt and other similar sized EVs?

    Either lock MG1 and MG2 together or let MG1 use a one way clutch for acceleration boost and efficient cruise on just MG2.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Exclusive-Toyota scrambles for EV reboot with eye on Tesla | Reuters


     
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    If you hit the Reuters limit, Exclusive-Toyota scrambles for EV reboot with eye on Tesla

    Another interesting bit, "In the meantime, Toyota has suspended work on some of the 30 EV projects announced in December, which according to the sources and a document reviewed by Reuters include the Toyota Compact Cruiser crossover and the battery-electric Crown."
    The Bolt platform isn't a dedicated EV one. It is basically a Trax one with a different belly to better suit a battery than an exhaust system. This is just what the e-TNGA is, an ICE platform modified for EVs

    Swapping the fuel tank for batteries isn't much of an issue. Putting them where the engine was will likely result in weight distribution issues. Cars already tend to be front heavy, and this would add a lot more weight there. It might look like more effort, but redoing the belly for a battery probably ends up being less work after tuning the car's driving dynamics.

    Repurposing the PSD and M/G's for a BEV feels like an unneeded kludge. Toyota isn't lacking in motor supplies for the BEVs they do have, and they still will be building hybrids and PHEVs that need those parts.
     
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  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    So confusing. It's almost as though Toyota doesn't know their audience ..... but that can't be true

    As for Tesla sales slumping in China - does that actually mean the wait to delivery is shorter? Didn't China just have "elections"? - with their heavy-handed dictator (surprise - no new leadership on the horizon) & with 100% covid lockdowns - causing inventory shortages - the market is not as stable as it could be if free markets were running the show. Can't build more cars if you don't have parts - even if the factory has capacity for a million units per year

    .
     
    #4 hill, Oct 24, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2022
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    but, but, there aren't enough batteries for toyota to make bev's...
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Battery buyers range from 'whistling past the cemetery' to 'Katie bar the door.' Tesla kept their eye on the necessities including fast DC charging and continues to show the way. The rule is, 'lead, follow, or get out of the way.'

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Oct 24, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
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  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Toyota has to come to grips with U.S. protectionist legislation, that essentially mandates EV's over hybrids and demands that the EV's be built in USA. Presumably Japan market itself will be strong for hybrids.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    USA legislators learned that procedure from China. Only USA Fed's aren't near as tough.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Maybe they just got the UX300e test results?

    There isn't enough batteries at the low price Toyota wants to pay. Of course, getting that means building the supply base before you needed them.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Perhaps the Inflation Reduction Act slapped them with a clue-by-for?

    Toyota has plenty of non-USA customers for their planned hybrid, PHEV, and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Start with Japan Inc.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    According to bestcarweb.jp, they can't make enough of their just introduced Harrier PHEVs. They had to stop taking orders.
    SUV戦線に異状発生!! 超人気車ハリアー参入で群雄割拠のPHEVを制するのはどれだ!?? - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」

    And apparently one of their development team members for the bZ4X/Solterra took a test drive in a Hyundai Ionic 5 and were shocked how much behind they were in their bZ4X/Solterra offering. Also they were shocked by how popular it was. That's the reason for the stoppage - a complete review of what was already on the drawing board.
    議論沸騰!! 「トヨタEV戦略見直し報道」の真偽 豊田章男社長決断のカギを握るのは……? - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    heads in the sand for a long time now
     
  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    EV adoption will ultimately depend on the overall ownership cost (initial + fuel + maintenance − resale) and government regulations. Only the green and/or tech-savvy people like us will drive EVs until the cost comes down—way down—which is not the case at the moment. Moreover, electricity rates and occurrence of blackouts will rise tremendously with increasing EV adoption, dampening the adoption.

    As for Tesla, their market share will diminish tremendously with everyone making EVs, from 50+% now to below 5%, destroying the company stock.

    You don't need to worry about Toyota. They are No. 1 in the world, and they will probably manage to remain No. 1 even after the EV adoption happens, which won't happen until mid-2030s.
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You should 'short' the stock. Billions have been made by short selling TSLA.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Trillions, not billions, have been made and lost with calls, puts, longs, and shorts of the Tesla stock. However, currently it is not a good time to trade anything with the extreme market volatility and the Fed aggressively messing with the interest rates.
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    GM was the number one car company in the world. until they weren't.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota insisted on doing their own tests instead of learning from the competition.
    BEVs probably beat ICE cars for overall costs in Europe before the pandemic. Currently, basic economics is driving their prices up; demand is stripping supply. The car companies are making higher profit models and trims until investments changes that. Being number three of the major EV markets also means the US gets less selection, which doesn't help with pricing.

    Costs for all energy sources have increased.

    Right now, the grid is being strained in places by extreme weather. Address that and plug in issue is fixed well before it becomes one.

    Tesla's EV market share will likely diminish, but their total volume should continue growing. Other EVs coming to market are going to take sales from ICE cars before they challenge Tesla.
    This is precisely what Toyota had believed. It is why they developed an "EV" platform that could be used for no-plug hybrids. Something that could be assembled alongside ICE models as the adoption rate would be low, and they wouldn't need to make many plug ins. that they had time to develop a dedicated BEV platform.

    Well, they just realized they were wrong, and hit the "we are fucked" moment. They just put 30 future hybrid, PHEV, and BEV models on hold, because those cars won't be competitive when they reach market against the competition. They were bringing Bolts and Leafs out against Ayrias, Equinoxes, and a line up of Ioniqs. The article title names Tesla, but the other traditional car makers are already bringing EVs on dedicated platforms to market, and are lining up the supplies to make millions of them. Some are positioning to jettison their ICE divisions. Then there are the Chinese and other companies just expanding outside of their home markets.

    So Toyota is now going to scramble to get a true BEV platform developed, and then decide whether to scrap all their current EV plans, or try to salvage them.
    The funny thing is that their Ultium suite might help them get back up there.
     
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  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    only the green like us ??
    ever been to Shanghai ??
    09504-govpol-beijingop.jpg

    meanwhile ..... where are the most plugins in the world found?

    Screenshot_2022-10-26-05-55-28-44_5ebe7ceed023e5c4dba122424f079699.jpg

    aren't some of the highest percentages of plugins being driven & sold - located right where coal is quite popular?
    .
     
    #18 hill, Oct 26, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2022
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    China has been closing the old coal plants, and replacing them with more efficient models. If natural gas wasn't abundant in the US, it is what the industry would be doing here.

    The pollution isn't popular there. The new plants are cleaner, but China isn't building them in the cities where the old ones were.
     
  20. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Can you please provide source for your sentence?



    From what I have read:


    [​IMG]
    Here Are Some Specs On The Toyota e-TNGA Platform For BEVs
    Toyota works on a new dedicated platform for all-electric cars, called e-TNGA, which might be considered a similar approach to Volkswagen Group's MEB.
    [​IMG] insideevs.com

    I quote:

    Toyota is working on a new dedicated platform for all-electric cars, called e-TNGA (from electric Toyota New Global Architecture)