Toyota Environmental status report 2012 - 21 new hybrids, 5x stronger lion batteries and more.

He provided multiple links. Most of them said power. The one that said energy looked wrong, and the nikkei story it is based on looks like power. The graphic you showed also looked like power, and energy looked to be about today's lithium airs. Lithium polymer car batteries are already viable (Sonata), while Lithium air looks much further out. Hey if they get twice the energy density, which it may, that is great in itself. Toyota may want to say 5x (power) since it looks bigger than the 2x (energy) that gm and Nissan are talking about. It means the next gen phv could likely go 25 miles on a same size pack (hybrid overhead is less), with the ability to use more regen braking and fully power the motor.

Yep.

I'm sure the latest announcement is about their most viable battery. Toyota will likely test for at least 2 years before one of these batteries gets in a car. Battery tech may be moving much faster than the historic 7% improvements, because the Japanese and US government are pushing plug-ins. This is providing much battery R&D. Really great stuff even if toyota only doubles energy density by 2020.

 

Why do you think it is wrong?

The energy density breakthrough was made last year, linking again. It clearly said it used solid electrolytes. We can rule out the lithium air. It also said they improved the conductivity to the level of liquid electrolytes so the power output is about the same.

So 5x the power density (per volume) is old news. The paper was presented a year ago. Perhaps, Toyota is announcing now because it has been validated with a prototype.

 

ICE cars need block heater plugged in to start in extreme cold as well. FCEV won't be any different.

 

Yes, because it is based on a nikkei story that said power not energy. These are common mistakes in stories picked up, when the american editor doesn't understand the tech. The nikkei story is for pay, otherwise I would post it.

It looks like toyota has good potential to improve batteries, which is great. I just don't want to raise expectations to unrealistic levels. Your linked article says 5x energy and 1/5th cost. That means 55 mile range in a phv sized battery, that costs the same as the phv. It would be great, but I'm not expecting that level of advancement, this quickly.

Toyota shows off all solid state lithium superionic conductor based prototype battery
Yep. It is closer to commercialization, and they have a prototype running on a scooter. They now have patents, and are talking about the specifics of the technology. If this one doesn't work, toyota is working on others. We have confirmation that this Lithium Polymer battery uses Li10GeP2S12.

LG chem overcame the lithium polymer problems in the batteries in the Sonata hybrid. Toyota seems to also and with greater energy and power density than the sonata battery. These are steps to make phevs at close to the same costs as hybrid vehicles. It should be mentioned that liquids can be used to keep the temperatures in range for BEVs, but these systems may be too expensive for HV and PHEVs and add weight to the vehicle. Toyota seems to be trying for low system costs.

 

GCC reported and the URL to Nikkei is there as well. The quote provided unmistakably said it is indeed 5x the power density.

Since the battery can easily be processed into sheet form, it can store several times the amount of electricity, volume for volume, than the current generation of electric vehicle batteries, according to the developers. This added capacity may extend the maximum driving distance per charge for compact EVs to around 1,000 km [621 miles] from the 200km or so for existing vehicles.​

When Toyota showed off the NS4 concept, the following info couldn't really sink in:

NS4’s advanced powertrain targets a next-generation Hybrid Synergy Drive plug-in system featuring reductions in component size and weight with improved overall fuel economy, better acceleration and longer all-electric range, while maintaining a short charge time.​

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I now understand it better because I know how they might achieve it.

 

Well yes the nikkei article says power, like I say. It is not energy, although from this quote you may get the impression that the battery can hold 5x the energy as a similar volume. It really is can capture 5x the power (amount of electricity) from regen brakes or from charging. In other words they can cut charging time to 20% and increase the percent of power recaptured from the brakes. I don't feel good about posting translations of the links.

Cool.