Toyota has been dragging their feet on new vehicle technology...

Have there been problems with thermal management? My Prime has been in temps from -11F to about 96F and has performed as expected with no problems. How do you define a "forgiving environment?"

Edit - who makes the EV I need with a 600+ mile range and charging everywhere I want to go? For example, Sudbury Ontario to Wassau, WI. Count the superchargers along that route.

 

So it's just your opinion that the thermal management is limited in this application? The Prime has heating and cooling for the battery pack.

 

I think @john1701a hit the nail on the head in post #5. Everyone wants their own favorite method or technology to work, up to the point where they'll deny any & all benefits of what is actually made available by the combined efforts of the industry.

I don't own a lithium mine or a hydrogen reformer. I don't have a dog in the fight. Whomever brings forth reliable familiar family cars priced in the 20s with attractive eco features will win my dollars. I really don't care if it runs on cabbage scraps, moonrocks or falling water.

 

You should buy one. I'm making a killing off of mine...

 

I can't disagree, but I'm back to the bit about waiting for a familiar family car priced in the 20s to make use of it. I'm fairly confident that Toyota will be able to do this (adjusted for inflation anyway) in 10-15 years on their current course. If somebody else gets there first I'll cheerfully consider switching brands- after all I'm only a year into my first Toyota.

I would also point out that nationalism isn't much of a factor here given that the US has been providing all of its own fossil fuel for a while now. I'm not arguing in favor of fossil fuels, simply pointing out that we don't buy them from overseas like we did as little as 15 years ago.

 

With turbines from Areva and Alstom and Siemens, heavy forgings from Japan or Korea, intake water screens from Germany, computers from China, etc. Not quite 100%.

 

Well for me, EV $0.048/mile and HV $0.042/mile for my first two years ~30K miles of PRIME ownership.
Our electricity is not 100% made in the USA. Our grid contains some % of imported electricity from CANADA. True no war over that... just not yet.
I am in the planning phase of putting PV on our roof, but for us, it makes absolutely no economic sense at all. Break-even time is 34 years under the best scenario, and there is no money making scheme in our current net-metering schedule.

Considering all of the above, I am perfectly happy with very affordable hybrid and PHEV technologies Toyota is offering right now.

 

Ditto. Except my numbers are a bit different at 1 cent/mile EV winter, 2 cents/mile EV summer, 5 cents/mile HV.

 

I have run the numbers. From what I can see I'd do fine with a rooftop PV setup NOT connected to the grid, because the net-metering setups available to me have already become disadvantageous. So if I were to do one, I'd use it to directly power a few loads around the house and simply not buy as much grid power.

I've also established that as long as I buy the PV setup with cash or financing below 0.6%, I'll break even in an appropriate amount of time. I haven't got the cash and nobody's offered me a rate that good yet.

 

What size install and what cost?

 

I've looked at the idea of an electric car for my wife. The challenge: She needs something that can go 180 miles to get her to work, then sit in an unpowered lot for 3-6 days, then do another 180 miles to get her home- she's airline crew, so that's the pattern and they aren't likely to get chargers in the airport employee lot anytime soon. And it needs to do that in all weather, and it needs to do that equally well across 8-10 years of ownership. I can't think of any electric car that can do this at all, and certainly none close to the purchase or operating costs of our Prius c.

Meanwhile I might find one that works for my own needs- lately I'm only driving 5-6k miles per year in my own car. (I travel a lot for work and rent many cars.) Most of that own-car usage is <10 mile local grocery gets, but there are also some 350 mile trips. That's a lot more doable for an EV. The difficulty is that it needs to measure up (down) to the purchase and operating costs of the 12 year old hatchback currently fulfilling these duties. Eventually there will be a 10 year old EV on craigslist for $3k with the same capability & remaining future utility, and I'll be ready for it.

 

Yes, if I'd bought my house maybe 10 years earlier I probably could have been grandfathered into a much better arrangement than what is currently offered.

So the new plan is to save up for a "disconnected" PV system with a 6-circuit transfer switch. I'll operate specific household loads from that source. More loads go on the PV in the summer, fewer in the winter, as enabled by the transfer switch.

 

That effort to evade the point being made about approach by introducing FUD to the discussion is a great example of that nervousness growing.

You know all too well we have an enormous amount of domestic energy available, easily enough to support Toyota's approach of significant reduction of the energy we consume. The spin that we need to eliminate is just another example of how an absolute can be used to impede progress, rather than promote it.

A plug-in hybrid like Prius Prime can easily cut consumption of imported oil to the point of no longer needing it. That's why Toyota is working so hard to diversify their hybrid offerings. The ones which sell the best are the ones that will be chosen for plug-in option sooner.

Again, your effort to evade has been noticed and called out. Too bad if you don't like the approach.

 

Programmable Logic Controller?

Thanks for the insights btw, interesting to hear from someone in the industry.

 

Demand here does drive how much they can get for their oil.

They only one that had problems is the Leaf. With fans, air cooling seems to be fine for PHEVs. They mean bulkier packs, but lower cost. That seems to be changing though. Ford has opted for liquid cooling of the pack in the upcoming Escape and Explorer, even the non-plug hybrids. The Escape hybrid price may be as low as the Rav4's.