Toyota Owners Jump Ship to Tesla

Mercedes will sell a hydrogen powered SUV in the US in 2019.

 

Is it true that Tesla monitors your car and knows where you have been, how fast you drive, can detect a accident and shut off your capability to use super chargers? Tesla is only allowed to work on your car, if you have a private individual service it and they find out, they will block you from certain Tesla privileges? Is this a auto manufacture or a private country club? Please tell me this is not so?

 

Some of this information, not all, is available through the on-board computer and logs after the fact, sort of like a "black box" in an aircraft.

There was some controversy about some Tesla owners using a fleet of cars for commercial purposes and overwhelming a Supercharger in some locations. I don't know how this was resolved.

Like any other automaker, Tesla won't warranty services by unauthorized independent vendors.

No more than Toyota, for example, or any automaker.

 

Tesla has a policy in place that once a car is damaged and not repaired by their authorized repair facility or Tesla, they will not sell you parts, and they will not service your car, until you pay them a hefty fee to inspect the vehicle. Until you have this done they disable your use of super chargers and other features in you car. Sounds pretty crazy to me. Who really ownes the car?

 

Yes, that policy is for salvage vehicles, This discourages unscrupulous people from 'repairing' a car that has been totaled and trying to resell it without disclosure. Toyota has the same policy.

 

I will ask Beth if she might know them.

Okay, I see that your desired route is with a waypoint at Rogers, AR. Let's run ABRP with this scenario:

• 200 mi - Huntsville to Memphis - Supercharger = 2 min.
• 159 mi - Memphis to Little Rock - Supercharger = 49 min.
• 214 mi - Little Rock to Rogers
• 65 mi - Rogers to Joplin - Supercharger = 5 min.
• 67 mi - Joplin to Coffeyville

​

Total miles = 707
Total trip duration (incl. charging) = 18:50
Total cost of electricity = ~$9.41

So there is flexibility with the route you chose with the model 3 and 310 mile range. This desired route takes a bit longer than an optimum route through the Tulsa area (Catoosa). But that's okay, you can get to Coffeyville by either route with no range anxiety.

 

Got it!

 

So watched some videos on the 3. It is assumed that the 3 has a built in cabin camera, and with the phone app to start and unlock doors and other features it has built into it the true plan for the 3 is to create Tesla's own ride sharing use of the 3. Any truth regarding this?

 

That has pretty much been stated. Although I am hoping they will use the interior camera to use the driver's eyes to judge how closely they are paying attention to the road.

 

Apparently, the camera is non-functional at this time. Elon's concept is that some day in the future, a model 3 could be used by a collective of owners, who would each purchase a share of the car, and use it in common OR the car could be used as a self driving Uber vehicle to generate extra income to offset ownership expenses. The camera would be functional at that time to maintain a record of how anyone was using the car or causing damage. This scenario will only happen with the Full Self Driving function, and who knows when that will happen because it will require a lot of State and Federal approvals. However, Elon just Tweeted that some of the initial, most simple, FSD functions will be rolled out in a few weeks for Beta testing.

 

Well, good for them. GM is planning one in the near future. Seen no news about either of them, nor Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai making the investment into refueling infrastructure to really expand it outside of California. These are compliance cars that milk CARB's ZEV system for the most value.

All these companies will be selling far more BEVs and PHEVs than their hydrogen powered cars. In fact, this Mercedes in also a plug in, with 30 miles of range on some European test. So less than the Prime is likely under EPA. It will help cut down on visits to the hydrogen station, and the hassle when the station is out of hydrogen or just low though.

I think fuel cells have a chance as range extenders, but not with hydrogen, and this F-Cell shows why. One of the costs for using hydrogen is the heavy, bulky tanks for it. Designers can get creative when packing batteries into the confines of a car's frame, and even with liquid fuel tanks. Not so for tanks that have to contain very high pressure gases. Physics defines their shapes, and these shapes don't lend themselves to efficient packaging. The Clarity FCEV loses trunk space to the other models. In comparison to its ICE sibling, the cargo area loses space, and the rear seat is up higher in this Mercedes. The loss of trunk space was a major hurdle for acceptance of the midsize hybrid sedans.

 

. . . is with a waypoint at Rogers, AR (Only because it has the shorter leg from Little Rock AR). Let's run ABRP with this scenario:

• 200 mi - Huntsville to Memphis - Supercharger = 2 min. ("2 min." after 200 miles??)
• 159 mi - Memphis to Little Rock - Supercharger = 49 min.
• 214 mi - Little Rock to Rogers (The long range Model 3 can make it but the short range, no.)
• 65 mi - Rogers to Joplin - Supercharger = 5 min.
• 67 mi - Joplin to Coffeyville

Total miles = 707
Total trip duration (incl. charging) = 18:50
Total cost of electricity = ~$9.41

So there is flexibility with the route you chose with the model 3 and 310 mile range.​

A former private pilot, trip planning is serious. FYI, I would plan on using the CCS near Rogers AR which assumes it is up and available. Also, I would probably take a long charger at Rogers and drive directly to Coffeyville. It is my practice to use automated trip planning systems for a 'first approximation' and then check the facts and data.

Bob Wilson

 

Where is Tesla??? So I am watching 24 Hours of LeMans and Toyota Hybrids are running 1 and 2! Go Toyota!

Commentators were talking about the future of LeMans and they stated with certainty that Hydrogen is the future and that BMW will be racing LeMans in a Hydrogen car in the near future.

I think there is a big disconnect of what Tesla owner in the USA believe what the future is and what Europeans believe the future is in alternatives to gas and diesel.

 

Because no place is the same.

Japan

• small nation
• resource poor
• residential grid low power; home charging a Prime takes twice as long as in the US if it is even possible.

Europe

• old towns
• lower urban sprawl
• private homes may not have private parking
• high fuel prices
• individual nations small

For them hydrogen fuel cells might make sense. But doesn't mean it makes sense for the US. The vastness of this country means the cost of infrastructure is much higher than in those countries. Tesla has been expanding the Supercharger network since before the Model S could be bought, and they still are areas they don't serve. Fast DC charging stations are cheap compared to hydrogen refueling stations.

And then gasoline and electric is cheap in much of the country. Hydrogen is over $15 a kilogram in California. A Mirai will go over 60 miles with that. A typical, comparable car will go over 70 miles with the gas that $15 can buy. A Camry hybrid will go 120 or more. That covers 240 miles of EV miles for a Prime at bisco's rates. Then at those prices, the hydrogen in California isn't even 100% renewable. Two thirds of it is coming from natural gas. The cheap hydrogen comes from fossil fuels.

 

Tesla doesn't make a hybrid and isn't interested in making a hybrid. Fossil fuels are a limited and nonrenewable resource. Enjoy LeMans while you can because LeMans, in its current format, is a dying dinosaur. Toyota would be better advised to spend its financial resources on technology for the future. What place is the fuel cell Mirai at LeMans?

 

Understand that charging is not linear. A BEV chargers faster at lower discharge and that last 20% to reach 100% charge is at a lower rate. In the example above, that 2 minutes is charging at a relatively rapid rate. However, if it makes you feel more comfortable, you could charge for 25 minutes in Memphis and 25 minutes in Little Rock (but you would get a bit less charge combined overall by doing it that way.

Now that I see you want to go to Rogers, AR in order to use a CSS charger, ABRP can route you that way in the base model 3 with 220 miles range. It is my understanding that Tesla includes a complimentary CSS adapter with the model 3.​

• 200 mi - Huntsville to Memphis - Supercharger = 18 min.
• 159 mi - Memphis to Little Rock - Supercharger = 44 min
• 214 mi - Little Rock to Rogers, AR = whatever you want to charge to
• you are good to go to Coffeyville

Now, before you tell me, that is cutting it too close, well no. Due to changes in elevation and regeneration, you will reach Memphis with ~50 miles left in reserve and you will reach Rogers with ~ 25 miles left in reserve. ABRP takes all of that into consideration when planning a trip.

Total miles to Rogers = 574 miles
Total trip duration to Rogers (including charging) = 15:01
Total cost of electricity to Rogers = ~$9.86

Yes, the trip to Coffeyville will take slightly longer and cost slightly more in electricity in a base model 3 compared to a long range model 3, but it will make that trip easily.

BTW, if you were to make that trip in a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, it would cost over $125 for fuel.

 

Congrats to Toyota and the Toyota Hybrid team for making history today at Le Mans! 1st and 2nd place finishes with two Toyota hybrid race cars! The competition was not event close. Europe is pro Hydrogen, and BMW, Porsche, Audi and others are focusing on Hydrogen race cars and with that comes technology for daily drivers. It's incredible how short sighted the naysayers are of Hydrogen. Do know England is pushing Hydrogen and has a decent infrastructure in place.