Toyota Prius c: 53 MPG city / 46 MPG Hwy; Under $19,000

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Danny, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. ydooby

    ydooby Junior Member

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    Why are so many people surprised? We knew long ago that the Prius c is gonna get slightly worse combined mileage than the Prius from the Aqua's JDM 10-15 rating of 37km/L versus the Prius's 38km/L (both 15"-wheel versions; the 14"-wheeled Aqua gets 40km/L but we don't get that). The Prius c is all about lowering the price of entry to a hybrid car, not about becoming the new mileage champ. The Prius c will give people even less incentive to buy the $18,350 Insight. That's all it is about.
     
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  2. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    Be careful quoting out of context... the follow-up post is correct. Those in upper-middle class who buy first NEW cars for their kids - this is a sweet-spot price point for that type of buyer.
     
  3. Mike Dimmick

    Mike Dimmick Active Member

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    In this battle of the wolves, the American wins. The modern EPA cycle, incorporating the high-speed highway test introduced for the 2008 model year, is actually very aggressive, more so than most Prius drivers would do. Beating the EPA is now actually quite easy.

    In contrast, Japan's new JC08 cycle is still very weak compared to international standards. I believe highway speed limits are substantially lower, only reaching 100km/h on some motorways, so numbers may be more realistic for that cycle for drivers in Japan.

    The European tests haven't been updated since 2000 and that was only to change it from a warm start to a cold one. I'm not sure when the 'extra-urban' component was added to the urban ECE 15 cycle. It was considered relatively weak compared to the EPA's cycle already.

    You won't have seen any real European numbers for the Prius c because we're not getting it. We're getting the Yaris Hybrid instead, for which no numbers have yet been published. You might have seen some articles on European websites about the Aqua or Prius c, but you can guarantee that they will simply be the Japanese JC08 or even 10-15 mode (archaic, incredibly weak) numbers transposed into European units. Japan measures economy in km/L, the UK in miles per imperial gallon, and the rest of the EU in L/100km. (In fact UK numbers are simply the rounded EU L/100km number transposed into mpg.)
     
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  4. macmaster05

    macmaster05 Senor Member

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    50 mpg combined is a laughable for a car that must look like it gets 70.

    I get 52 mpg in my Gen II. Can't wait to blow past these on the road with my as-efficient, older, bigger, and better-looking Prius.
     
  5. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    i wouldnt be so sure - head engineer for Prius c said at Japanese unveil that it will start selling in 55 countries next year, and that only means Europe.

    Prius c is based on Verso-S, not Yaris... so it does make sense to have them both.
     
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Agree completely, those japan cycles drastically overestimate mileage. The japanese version also has 14" wheels, while the US has 15" as the smallest size. I'm not sure which japan used on the test.
     
  7. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Prior to today, did Toyota report the Prius c would have the "highest mileage" or "highest city mileage" of any hybrid yet? If they had remained silent on that, I don't think anyone would be disappointed. I totally understand what you typed above and I'm happy with that explanation. I just wish Toyota hadn't built up expectations ahead of time. I'm "over it" now. I just wanted to explain the reason I was disappointed at first.
     
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  8. er86

    er86 Junior Member

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    I was impressed with the Versa since I drove one after the Leaf test drive, but having to move up to the more expensive package to get the rear-folding seat is just crazy. I am looking forward to Toyota updating the web site for the C to confirm they didn't sniff the same crazy stuff Nissan did.
     
  9. er86

    er86 Junior Member

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    I rented a number of times in 2011. I was fortunate to rent one of the Korean imports with a couple of thousand miles on it and was impressed. Rented the same care from another agency with 20k miles and got confirmation the car is trash. Rented a Camry with 30k miles on it and the vehicle drove like a new car. Only concern is whether the C has been cheapened by a thousand paper cuts...
     
  10. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    See this exact same 1.5L HSD in a Yaris Hybrid in EU in Q2/2012. Really curious what the consumption numbers will , compared also to the weight...
     
  11. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    FWIW, Transaction Prices Continue to Reach New Record Highs in December; Incentives Decline According to TrueCar.com | TrueCar Blog says the average transaction price for December 2011 was $30,686.

    I am a little bit disappointed w/the combined mileage but wasn't expecting 60 mpg combined. I too am not surprised that the highway rating is less than the liftback Prius given the smaller engine. I do agree that it seems like mileage has plateaued at 50 mpg combined if you still want a 4 cylinder engine and CVT or automatic.

    Looking at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm, the 06 Insight manual, after adjustment is EPA rated at 48 city/58 highway/52 combined. The CVT is 45 city/49 highway/47 combined. Keep in mind that was a 2 seater w/1.0L liter 3-cylinder engine.

    I do like the price though as the '12 Prius Two starts at $24K (http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-h...es-prices-2012-prius-between-480-1-045-a.html). I agree w/the others that this opens about hybrids to another segment of people who might've thought the regular Prius was too expensive and had too much of a "premium".

    I think Honda hybrids, esp. the Insight are really going to have a tough time (more than they already are) once the c ships.

    Someone else said they didn't see the utility of power locks. I disagree, at least if the car has >2 doors. My parents have owned two 4 door cars cars w/o them. It's very easy to accidentally leave a door unlocked. For me, I wouldn't buy a 2+ door car w/o power locks nor one w/o cruise control unless it were to never be driven on the highway. I could do w/o power windows, if on a tight budget.
     
  12. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    Ps: maybe the C is the new Auris for the EU? But not with this HSD...
     
  13. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Well, the 2nd gen Prius, after adjustment is EPA rated at 48 city/45 highway/46 combined.
     
  14. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I agree with you. :)
     
  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    50 combined is disappointing given toyota said it would get the best mileage, I thought they would at least give it 1 more than the liftback. The price is nice, and I expect it to sell more in 2012 than the gen 1 insight sold in all those years. There are definitely ways to improve mileage in this car, toyota just went cheap when it came to the power train. But how much more would you pay for 55mpg versus 50mpg?

    you can still buy some cars w/o power windows, but I don't think manual windows on a prius will sell, the car is just too expensive.
    Power Windows and Door Locks? Sorry, Not Available - NYTimes.com
     
  16. bedrock8x

    bedrock8x Senior Member

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    Does anyone know the battery size?
    I suspect Toyota trade off too much to meet the $19K price point with the over down sizing of the HV battery, MG1 & MG2. The MPG suffers because the ICE has to work harder.
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    "But how much more would you pay for 55mpg versus 50mpg?"

    This is exactly the point, and remember that compared to this forum, the public at large in general cares a lot more how that 10% improvement in fuel economy translates into money saved to put towards their car payment, not national security or pollution or AGW.

    Merkins do not bother with arithmetic, but here is an estimate anyway:
    50 mpg is about 5.5 cents a mile these days, so 55 mpg saves about 0.5 cents a mile.
    Every 1000 miles (about a month's driving for many) pencils out to $5.
     
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  18. Dolce_Vita

    Dolce_Vita Member

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    I think on the EU cycle it will be better than the Gen3, as its less highway focussed and has more stop/start situations. I'm thinking 3.5l/100km.

    I don't see how the C is at all disappointing. 50mpg is good in comparison to everything else in its class? I also think this will attract buyers who were put off by the Prius' shape/styling - it just looks like any other small hatchback and doesnt really scream 'Prius' - yet you get the benefits of a Prius.

    The floor mounted shifter and more conventional interior should also attract buyers who previously didnt like the 'weirdness' of the Prius.

    What i see this car as doing is democratising the Prius/Hybrid concept/brand. It's bringing it to the masses. It looks fun, young and fresh, while still pretty conventional for a compact car. It has a more normal interior and a very accessible starting price. If anything it will bring people to appreciate the whole Hybrid concept and people may even be drawn into showrooms to view the C and end up with a regular Gen3.
     
  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    "It looks fun, young and fresh, while still pretty conventional"

    I agree with most of your post -- this sentence I quoted of yours just struck me as funny ;)

    In my world, "conventional" is what attracts right-wingers and people older than me.
     
  20. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Some older people may still prefer the shifter in the steering column of their Buick Roadmaster, but I think this is more appropriate for a futuristic/modern/hybrid electric car. IMO, there is no reason for a shifter.
    [​IMG]
     
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