Toyota Prius plug-in needs more sizzle

I've seen misquotes happen from time to time, but that one takes the cake.

 

Isn't that what you said, that the sales would stop rising, that the prius would take market away, and the the prius phv would quickly outsell the volt? No need to be in denial. But really from all I wrote that is what you comment on?

 

Not remembering who said what is a good reason to stop posting. Wait for the month end results.

<unwatch>

 

Always some reason not to face the valid points against your position isn't there?

 

Where did you see a GM projection for 2013? Last articles I've seen have all said will build to balance supply and demand?

New Plug in prius listed at cars.com = 2634, i.e. about 4 months at current sales rate.
Volts 7410 (Guess 90 sold since yesterday), i.e. about 3 months at current sales rate.


And with respect to prius rollout and its impact on Volt sale..
John what ever happened to the nationwide rollout and dominance you suggested Dec 2012:

And with respect to sales and stock.. John's been here saying that before.. was wrong last summer (without learning)

 

I believe it was put out in June 2012, a quick googling got this as the earliest link. Its an editorial but puts in
At This Price, We Should All Own Chevy Volts - Forbes

The target actually was volts and amperas world wide, and gm came in at 30,200 at 2012.

This doesn't really have much to do with the prius phv, but only to correct information about the volt.

 

The 35-40K in that article was 2012 projection, based on comments Akerson made, off the cuff in April 2012 then
GM Chief Says He’s Worried About Second Half - Businessweek
again in answerquestions in June.

That was not a 2013. There is this closest I've seen to a 2013 projection
GM Plans For 36,000 Volt Based Sales This Year After &#8220;Frustrating&#8221; 2012
and that was very clearly unofficial.

 

I am not sure what the problem is. The volt is doing a little worse than projections, its not much worse. They built inventory for the model year changeover, and they appear to be able to sell this inventory with a drop in price. They say that the price drop will hit customers that the lease and financing incentives did not. Not too bad. As I see it GM likely is making a profit on variable costs. They chose to over build and discount, instead of possibly run into shortages. GM has definitely made mistakes on production and pricing, but seem to be getting there act more together. This is not like last year where they overbuilt, discounted and shut down, ran into shortages, overbuilt, etc. Nissan made even more mistakes in 2012, and lost a great deal of money, but appear to be on track this year. Tesla has had a few hiccups, but no management mistakes. They are the only guys that seem to get pricing and inventory right.

We constanstly see articles this year about plug-ins not selling, when the market has grown over 100% from a year ago. IMHO it would be great if GM dropped the price to be where it wanted to be, and stopped the discounting. Unfortunately discounting is in the corporate culture. Discounts to be competitive to ford and nissan are one thing, but the price needs to come down, we at least think the costs have come down enough to make it happen. Over 50,000 volts/amperas sold (through march europe, june US) won't stop the negative press. It is entrenched and even good news seems rile up people that want plug-ins to fail, or gm to fail, or obama, etc.

 

and

Classic.

Yet another discussion turned into a Volt hate thread. Nothing else to see here folks, move along.......

 

Volt is a polarizing topic. The suggestion of offering a second model gets labeled as "hate" and is treated as if you are calling the current model "failure". It's an absolute. There's no in between. You are either for or against.

Long story short, we will continue to see that until GM breaks out beyond the one-size-fits-all approach. The need for diversity causes a lot of pressure. It's a normal and quite predictable response by supporters & enthusiasts.

Prius PHV is not like that. It coexists with other models. The idea of altering battery-pack capacity is commonly posted about. There aren't the avoidance issues as we see with Volt. There isn't worry that all will be lost when differences are later introduced.

 

John, the Volt isn't a polarizing topic, your posts are polarizing.
All of your posts seem to say GM is always wrong and Toyota is always right.
Even when GM is doing exactly what Toyota did years ago, for some reason it was right for Toyota but is bad now that GM is doing it.

Nobody labels offering a second model based on the Volt drivetrain as "hate". As a matter of fact, most Volt enthusiasts encourage GM to build an SUV plugin hybrid.
However, why not give GM some time to do this? How long between the release of the Prius before we saw the Prius C, V and PHV?

The Volt is growing sales faster than the Prius did.
Yes, GM was late to the game, but seem to be doing well.

As for your sit and watch hypothesis, in general I would think a new model/technology vehicle wants to get in to a new market earlier rather than later as they can get more of the early adopter market.

 

Seems is a confirmation of the misquoting. Some simply assume stance and don't even bother to notice the change. Not reading what's actually being posted will have that outcome.

 

I'm sure the Volt supporters want to see more hybrids from GM, or even just the Volt come down in price. They realize that product development cycles for cars are measured in multiple years. They also realize that a company is free not to release information about their upcoming products and plans. Your suggestion of another model comes across as one should be offered right now, and demanding for info on when GM plans to do so.

Toyota didn't start putting HSD into other models until the second generation of the Prius. At least six years after the first production Prius went on sale.

It appears you are calling the Volt a failure, because you bring up things like 7500 Volts are in inventory on Cars.com. Which, going by current sales rate, is 3 months of supply. Cars.com numbers has the PPI at 4 months.

Where is this worry that all be lost when differences are introduced for the Volt? I for one am excited to see what GM does with the second generation.

 

I see how much goals have changed since rollout began... hence asking for confirmation.

It's quite clear conditions are not the same and the same approach was not taken.

Shooting the messenger for pointing that out is a clue some part of the story is missing.

The reaction does not match the circumstances nor the apparent new goals.

 

Then why are you asking here? Wouldn't a GM site be a better place for answers?

 

The double-standard should have been obvious... apparently not.

 

Some PiP sizzle!

Top 10 MPGe | PriusChat

 

Really you've seen the goals change? Since you keep asking us what are the goals, if you have sources to show what are the goals now and how they have changed? If so, why do you keep asking us. If not, how can you say they have changed if you don't know the goals?

Yes, your double standard for GM vs Toyota is quite obvious. The question was why?

Some of those are quite impressive, showing how well suited he PiP is to some users conditions. If the marketing could highlight when/where and how much it saves it could be effective. Having it as a "me too" in the hum commercial does not really get much across. Maybe they are counting on PC to be their marketing..

 

John,
I have not really seen evidence of goals changing in the volt, it just takes time to reach those goals. I have greater insite to bmw and tesla. I don't think anyone on this board is a spokesman for gm. If you know what these goals were and are, why don't you tell us, instead of asking us.

I have heard rumors of goals being changed on the prius phv.

The thing that seems disconnected from your comments is that you are commenting on the volts inventory on a prius phv thread. That seems extremely disconnected. There is no reason to bring up the volt on this thread unless it is to compare sales or features with the phv. You seemed to only to be on this thread to bash the volts inventory in a vacuum, without looking at the plug in market or the phv's inventory level. Can you see how that doesn't seem right. When you then ask for quick changs to the volt, it seems tone deaf. The next gm platform for the volt is not due until 2015. I would not expect a gen II until at least then. The volt has already upgraded its battery.

What is the message?
I did not hear a constructive message. I heard a number from cars.com, that meant to you, the volt was doing badly, and you did not like the context I put it in. You refused to analyze the prius phv in the same way

days inventory

I'll do it for you, if you like.

7383 cars.com inventory volt, 2698 sold june, 1607 sold may = 105 days inventory
2623 cars.com inventory prius phv, 584 sold june, 678 sold may = 127 days inventory

Now the volt in the period around a change over, and has targetted about 70 days of inventory. It was a little high, if you believe the cars.com numbers. The prius phv is not going through a shut down to change models and has higher levels. The volt even looks better if you look only at june, 82 days volt versus 134 days for the phv. Since gm has offered the discounts sales are up and days of inventory are decreasing.

I do not trust cars.com, but even with these figures inventory of the volt appears to be fine. On a thread about the prius, you pointed out how bad it was, but don't seem to find any problem with the prius phv inventory levels (IMHO these are fine too, they just have inventory at dealers that aren't selling any, but sales levels need help).

If you acted like a messenger, I definitely would not be criticizing you.

 

I think one of the biggest barriers is that they aren't advertising it well enough. I never heard about range, charging cost, or how easy it is to plug it on on any commercials or advertisements -- they just throw out high MPGe numbers.