Toyota Prius Speeds Out of Control on SoCal FWY

What proof? That accidents have occurred is proof of nothing. No causes have been determined as of this time.

If a reliable source reaches the conclusion that there was a vehicle fault in one of these incidents, that would be a different matter. Your bullshitting and making crap up doesn't count.

 

...but it is true Prof. Malorn - I heard / saw it on TV this morning. It must be true they also had the "run away Prius" and all the other Toyota problems on. Must be true!!!

Furthermore:
"Seventy-four percent of Toyota owners said they haven’t lost confidence in the company’s vehicles, and 82 percent think they are safe, Gallup said last week"

 

And using DeadPhish's line of argument.. if accidents are proof of something, then why isn't a GM accident proof of something as well?

 

If that's all you have, then allow me to give you a nice fresh bag of "shut the hell up".

 

This is just another case of public paranoia just like what happened to the Audi 5000.

 

The only cars that seem to have a mind of their own are built by toyota. First it was the floor mats, then it was the gas pedals(only the US manuf) now what is the problem? Driver Error or paranoia? Or could it be electronic? Why won't toyota give its intrnal test results to the feds?

 

Once again, it hasn't been shown that any car (GM, Toyota, or other) has a mind of its own.

 

New Toyota Accidents Raise Safety Concerns - EconWatch - CBS News

sorry, but this has taken on a life of its own.

 

I agree that the media coverage has taken on a life of its own. And as I said above, if investigators determine that vehicle fault led to any of the accidents, that changes things.

But I fail to see how that is related to what kicked this off: You making claims without any evidence to support them.

 

While I'm very skeptical of this incident, I, for one, DO hope they find something wrong with the car. I mean, if the pedal was stuck in an accelerated position it should still be there, right? I would much rather have a clear, "there is something wrong with the car and we're going to fix it," type of situation than the, "we can't find anything wrong with the car," which will allow this debate to continue endlessly.

If they find nothing wrong with the car, then I'd have to go along with everyone that says that this is a publicity stunt. The odds against this apparently very rare problem (if it is a problem at all) occurring at this particular time (with Toyota all over the news) for over 10 minutes to someone who is ignorant of ALL the things he could have done to stop the car safely are long enough. The odds against all of this happening while leaving absolutely NO evidence in the car are just too big for me to swallow.

So, let's hope for a stuck gas peddle that engineers can point to and say, "Hey, this was caused by a bent frumigator! We just need to put stronger frumigators in our cars."

 

perhaps this answers your Q:

Prof. Malorn has connections ("his Toyota insider source")

 

Looks like a severe case of brake fade


""The brakes were definitely down to hardly any material," Neibert told reporters Tuesday. "There was a bunch of brake material on the ground and inside the wheels.""

 

Toyota could make this all go away by releasing the details (what is captured, on what frequency, for how long, how to extract the data, and, and, and) on the data logging function. Instead, they are stone-walling. Yes, they grudgingly agreed to provide NHTSA with their very own laptop that must be used to extract the data; but I haven't heard where a laptop has actually been provided to NHTSA. Also, what about training on how to use the laptop to extract the maximum amount of data?

This is constructive obstruction on Toyota's part. Until they make the data log inquiry process completely transparent, Toyota deserves all of what is being generated in the press. Even if it is false or un-founded.

 

The whole media seems to have 'forgotten' that EVERY CAR with cruise control is a potential run-away missile. The right combination of electrical harness, mechanical and/or electronic faults could cause any car's cruise control to believe it should accelerate 'balls to the walls', and EVERY car is all too eager to accommodate that request.

In fact, every car with cruise control I've ever driven has been spookily aggressive (compared to pedal input) when I used the cruise control to accelerate. Hold the 'go faster' on the cruise control on your Prius. VROOM!

This guy in San Diego makes me suspicious, but I won't make any claims about his guilt/innocence until the FACTS come in.



Maybe I'm imagining it, but if you unplugged or otherwise crippled the brake sensor and set the cruise control for '99', you could make a car into a 'run-away' pretty easily. The brake lights might even illuminate, if they're switched separately from the computer braking inputs. All you'd have to do is tap them to light them up.

This isn't to say there aren't 'problems' with the Prius. Every other car I've had, so much as touching the brake pedal cancels cruise control. I have to briefly HOLD the brake on the Prius to cancel it. Same for the transmission controls. I can't just bump it into Neutral. I have to hold it there for a fraction of a second before it switches. You can't just press the 'Power' button to force it off. You must press and hold for 1...2...3... seconds.

Lot's of time-based 'molly guards' on controls, that maybe shouldn't be there.

Lots of little 'gotchas' that can distract a panicked person who didn't RTFM before they jumped behind the wheel. Maybe some should be addressed in software.

There's FAIL and FAIL SAFE. The latter case, failures result in some kind of controlled condition. A diagnostic subroutine for the computer might be called for. Something to watch for various 'bad' state on inputs, to shut the car down, or reduce its maximum power output until it's looked at for service. I wouldn't mind if something 'tripped' to disable the cruise control and limit the top speed to 55 with a 'service me' indication. The Prius is certainly capable of such a check.

The 'go faster' on ANY cruise control should only respond to 'taps'. Or not at all. Pop up 1MPH every time you tap it up. You can always accelerate with the pedal and 'set' it again. What happens if that switch alone 'sticks' on? Well, it should cancel as soon as you touch the brake. But you have to HOLD the brake to cancel it, don't you? Having the controls on the moving part of a steering wheel where the cable to them can be flexed constantly isn't such a great idea, either.

The confusion that happens when the vehicle doesn't do what you tell it is enough, even in a fraction of a second, to cause a wreck. Distraction at least as bad as 'texting' while driving, while you try to 'figure it out', possibly in an adrenaline rush, instead of paying attention to the road.

 

I know that when we had a problem with a piece of equipment in singapore, we were able to get diagnostic equipent there in 20 hours. This laptop is in the US and I don't know anywhere in the country where it would take much time to get a laptop to san diago if you actually wanted it there. If toyota suspects a hoax, it would be in there interest to have gotten it there yesterday. I expect they have a team of lawyers working on all the contingencies and figuring out how to hide the data. OK, the last part is speculation based on past statements by toyota lawyers.

 

Especially if they placed it in a runaway Prius....


Seriously - I hope the Toyota Engineers have NHTSA right over their backs so everything is substantiated - esp good news, but even bad.

 

The Prius has this. It is called "Limp home mode", although the top speed is limited to much less than 55 mph. On early Prius this mode was too easily triggered, and resulted in angry customers and a recall to change the code.

Tom

 

Which is why I am making my statement about constructive obstruction. Want to bet that the NHTSA investigators that are either on their way or already in San Diego don't have the laptop computer that can extract the data from the recorders? And what about the Toyota investigators?

Constructive obstruction equals constructive guilt.

 

The problem in this case is there was no accident. The event recorders in cars retain only a few seconds of data, typically frozen when the air bags deploy. Without a trigger event, the data will look like it does for any other normal day of driving.

If cars had data recorders like large commercial aircraft, then we could get something useful.

Tom