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Toyota Quality Program - YEAAAAA!!!

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    That was a phony bunch of bs. Dateline NBC was caught red-faced with the combustible still taped inside the pickup fenders. How many families perished? How many state troppers were on their cell-phones unable to stop their Lexus?
    Hill the best/worst part of this is yet to come, toyota has known about this for years and did nothing and has over the last year even worked very hard to cover it up. That is what will be the most brutal and mark my words the 'watergate' moment is coming.

    Do you really think Toyota was able to engineer a new gas-pedal and manufature the fix in a week? And that is not even the problem. The real problem is electronic. Listen to the tape of the state trooper in San Diego, do you really think that is a gas pedal that is stuck? How many deadly accidents do you need with no skid-marks?
     
  2. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    I did as well as the investigation's report. Either the dealer left or installed truck mats in the car. If the driver had shifted into neutral this wouldn't have been news. If the car had been a Chevy I'd defend GM.

    There won't be skid marks because ABS prevents the wheels from locking.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Understand that I have no illusions about how difficult it will be to implement an effective quality program. I spent 13 years with GE and 10 years with the now gone, Boeing Information Services, and remembered how hard it was to get an effective quality program going:

    • Upper management support - every 3-4 years, they would announce a new quality program and goal with budget and training ... but after the kickoff, their interest decayed until 3-4 years later another 'quality program' would kick off.
    • End contributor support - too often we became jaded by the hypocrisy of "just in case" quality training. We knew the mandatory training was given 'just in case' it might stick.
    • Middle management - first line managers and supervisors either buy into it or not and that is key. The smart ones realize a quality program can be an effective tool that complements their team leadership ... this is the hard part.
    Sorry, this is going to read like a rant but it is also about what I've learned works and doesn't work. But have no doubt in my commitment to the goals of quality as I have life experiences about what works and doesn't work. I will return to Toyota's announcement and what I like and the risks.

    Ward Clark's Red Pen

    When I began my operating system apprenticeship, I was given an assignment to write an ALLOCATE command. The design process was a team effort where we went into a locked room and discussed (more like argued) about what the user memo would say about the ALLOCATE command. This included all of the options and error message, especially the error messages, until we reached concensus (the absence of violent objections.) This took several days and no work was done on the ALLOCATE command until a final draft of the command was written and agreed to. I was allowed to start researching the system service calls but not write a line of code.

    With the User Memo, I could start coding and Ward Clark told me to bring me the first code, even before the compiler, just a listing. Ward took out his red pen and by the time he was done, there was more red ink than black. ... Back to the desk and two days later, I brought back the second version ... again the red pen but less than before ... Back to the desk and a day or so later I brought it back, he took one look and said, "OK."

    Ward was training me on how to write code that looked like the code everyone else in our department wrote. It meant when we had to debug something, we didn't have to figure out the coding style but could concentrate on the goal. It also meant that a small system programming team, four brilliant guys, Ward, Bernie, Roland, and Rick, could do the work of six or eight in another shop. We each had our special expertise but we put agreed to code the same way which meant we could 'code share' and not get lost or distracted by superficial things.

    DECUS Development vs Maintenance

    At a DECUS presentation, somebody selling a configuration management tool showed a chart titled 'Programmer Retention.' He showed two curves, the percent development curve and the percent maintenance curve and they intersected around 18 months. He pointed out that this matches the average employment time of many programmers because:

    • Development is fun
    • Maintenance is drudgery
    Ok, we realized there might have been a little tweaking to make the data fit but the behavior he described was dead-on. Too many times I'd seen professional developers who flittered in at the front of a project and found their new job just as implementation began. Too many times I found junior programmers who were hired to maintain (or complete) projects begun by the developer ... and they would burn out ...

    Consolidated Automated Support System

    Using embedded comments to generate user and design documents, I was able to write the quality standards for a major GE project. I gave them to our QA team and backed them up. They were shocked that a performing manager backed them up ... when they enforced the goals of the coding standard. But their shock was exceeded by as some of our 'brilliant' but undisciplined programmers when I sided with QA. We met schedule and budget because even when someone 'got stuck,' I or another clever programmer could pick up their work and concentrate on the important parts and not get lost in style.

    ISO-9000 (1992)

    I had become skeptical about the "Quality" industry having gone through repeated "just in case" training both in GE and Boeing. Then one day I was reading Electronic Design News about something called ISO-9000 and the 20 sections and "the light came on."

    Here was a Quality Standard that had hard requirements, independent verification and the skeletal strength of 20 sections to teach what a quality program needs to incorporate. Perfect, no but compared to everything else I'd been exposed to, it was close enough. I still maintain a private library of ISO-9000 documents and use them to train newbies.

    Sad to say, ISO-9000 was re-written in 2000 to eviscerate the 20 steps for some vague, weasel-worded nonsense. So now ISO-9000 simply means . . . well it impossible to tell. In the past, an ISO-9000 company had to implement a trouble ticketing system. But today, an ISO-9000 system has no such hard requirement.

    WHAT I LIKE ABOUT TOYOTAS POLICY

    Understand that a policy lasts only as long as the employees buy-in to it. Great enthusiasm at first followed by enu six months later breeds contempt and justifiable skepticism. But the elements are there:

    • Improved Quality Inspection Process - you can't 'inspect in quality' but improvements can mean defects are treated as a teaching moment. It also means looking beyond the surface, the initial symptom.
    • Enhanced Customer Research - this hopefully is not just a 'satisfaction survey' meant to prove "we're doing OK." Rather it means farming customer feedback to polish the car and get the specifications for the next release or upgrade.
    • Automotive Center of Quality Excellence - GE had an R&D lab that was an excellent resource for programs that needed research quality support, say a mathematician's skills. It can be a place where the science and art can exists as a core, corporate resource.
    • Support from Outside Experts - this is risky because some outside experts can be toxic. However, it can also bring in a point of view that breaks through corporate culture that might not have noticed 'the world has changed.'
    • Increased Communication - another difficult area that takes deft skill. It is sometimes difficult to listen to what is really wrong from someone whose face is red, shouting and veins bulging from their neck. Concentration on the facts and data in communication is as much an art as anything else and should never be abused as a 'local anesthetic.'
    • Improved regional autonomy - if I had to leave the USA, my choices would be coastal Canada, New Zealand, and Australia. Language, culture, and attitude counts a lot and these are places where our strengths and weakness would complement each other. But if I worked for Toyota, I would advise everyone to go back to school until we could read a Japanese newspaper because we need to both understand who and where we live yet effectively communicate with those who make our products.
    The beginning of any quality program is a time of great promise and lofty goals. If these goals become practical programs that involve the customers in a closed-loop, it will lead to customer loyalty that will be a bastion for both innovative technology and sustained growth.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  4. raholco

    raholco Ailurophile

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    ISO 9000 was great for one reason only-documentation. EVERYTHING had to be documented with ISO 9000. It didn't mean you actually HAD to follow through on fixing such documented issues.

    It goes back to the old '5 Whys' questions that had to be asked when an incident occurred-there's where you will find the problem.
     
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    It doesn't hurt to renew Toyota emphasis on product quality, but I think this is besides the point. Quality, in a manufacturing context, measures conformance to product specifications. However, what if the inherent design is silly or arrogant?

    As this is a Prius forum, here are examples relating to our favorite car:

    1. Fuel tank bladder and inaccurate fuel gauge system in North American 2001 - 2009 Prius. The result is that the owner has +/- 2 gallon uncertainty regarding how much fuel is in the car and therefore is unclear as to the remaining range available. When the first bar is blinking, can you drive 5 more miles or 100 more?

    2. HVAC catalytic converter on North American 2001 - 2003 Prius which can develop a sticking valve in areas where winter salt is applied on the road. The result is a $2K repair bill since the part is a custom design not readily available on the aftermarket.

    3. The coolant heat recovery tank on 2004 - 2009 North American Prius, where recent posts show that dealer techs are not always able to get all air out of the engine coolant system when the coolant is replaced. (3G owners, look forward to similar issues regarding the exhaust heat exchanger system, when the population has aged to the point where 100K miles have been logged on a reasonable % of the population.)

    4. The very small 12V auxiliary battery on any Prius, which results in relatively short life when the driver leaves a door or hatch ajar. (News flash: unfortunately Prius owners are not always perfect.)

    5. The unforgiving jumpstart process on any Prius, where if you reverse battery polarity you are likely to kill the inverter, resulting in a four-digit repair. (Again, the owner or the tow truck driver is not always perfect.)

    6. Very expensive HID (2G) and LED (3G) headlamps that are also very costly to maintain.

    I recognize that Toyota cars are consumer products that must meet competitive features and pricing. I'm not expecting the car to be perfect.

    What I do expect is that when a significant problem occurs (which is inevitable, given the high complexity hidden in the Prius design), that the company be quick to realize the problem and determine a solution, be slow to blame the problem on driver error, and will work diligently to fix the problem on the already shipped population of cars, even if the product warranty has expired. This is especially true when the problem relates to product safety and performance - and the recent 3G braking issue fits that category.

    Classic Prius owners whose warranties have expired already face the harsh reality that when any significant part of the hybrid system fails (transaxle, traction battery, inverter) they are facing a healthy four-digit repair bill at the Toyota dealer and usually don't have aftermarket alternatives available. It makes no sense to spend that amount of money on a car worth $5K, so the result is the car gets a new home at the salvage yard, even though other systems may still be working well and the car cosmetically is in good condition.

    Although you can still find Toyota Camrys from the 1980's driving around 30 years later, my prediction is that it will be very rare for you to see Classic or 2G Prius driving around in 2030 due to the very high cost of post-warranty repair.

    The issues that I have defined above are not "quality" problems in the narrow sense.
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    A quality program does not eliminate "end of life" for any product. It just means during the time of the manufacturer warranty, there are effective ways to get problems identified and corrected. It also means that next generation cars are not burdened with previous generation problems. For example:

    • HC converter - dropped with NHW20
    • Coolant tank - dropped with ZVW30
    • NHW11 modules - dropped with NHW20
    • flexi-body NHW20 - dropped with ZVW30
    • neutral steering NHW11, NHW20(?) - reduced with ZVW30
    • lower fuel efficiency above 65 mph - dropped with ZVW30
    • weak heating - dropped with ZVW30
    Even within the NHW20, there appears to have been a quality improvement around the 2006 model year. A mid-production tweak the corrected the MFD soldering problem and possible a few other tweaks. I'm also curious about the 2009 because the EPA user reported mileage is way out of line with the 2004-08 models.

    So I'm looking forward to the quality program with no expectations that the problems with the NHW20, NHW11 or even the NHW10 will be retro-actively be 'fixed.' I'm not even expecting our ZVW30 to be rebuilt at the dealership. Rather, I'm expecting the 2012 Prius to be awesome.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I would like to add that there should be more communication between the corporate headquarters and dealerships. I feel there's a disconnect (both in sales and service levels). Product advisors go through all the training (some have shown me their certificates and others have shown me the training DVD) but yet how is it that when I question them about a product, they're dumbfounded? Granted, that's a lot of information to remember (all the different models, trim levels, packages, prices.. assuming they don't split between passenger cars and trucks within the dealership). I had one ask me how I knew the differences between 2010 Prius packages! Jeez. This is the same guy who promised me over the phone that he's passed the training and will be able to help me with any questions I have.
     
  8. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    Thirded! :cheer2:
     
  9. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Agreed. While we don't know how the CTS pedal situation developed, I'd imagine that it passed all sorts of tests for quality/quality gates such as # of defective parts per million, durability and wear tests, accelerated environmental testing, etc. However, one can speculate that perhaps Toyota and/or CTS didn't focus on the combination of conditions that caused the pedals to stick.

    With the infamous lag when switching from regen to friction brakes during light braking and hitting rough pavement, in all likelihood, all the physical parts were of quality and made to spec, meeting quality gates, etc. but it seems that the design/choices made when writing the firmware could've been better.
     
  10. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    all this point to the continuous improvement process