Toyota Shows Distain: Even for their Own RAV4-EV

Hyundai just came out with the Sonata plug-in, and yes Kia has the Soul. But I am asking why did Hyundai not come out with a Tesla fighter, but decided to go after BMW, Mercedes and Lexus with no EV or Hybrid option?

 

I am sure they are on the way. But it just strikes me as being odd that with all the talk of EV being the future that with a launch of a new high end vehicle line they did not include an EV to take some Tesla market share, Maybe they are working on a hydrogen high end car, like Lexus is!?

 

Hyundai is also coming out with the Ioniq, which will be offered in regular hybrid, plug-in hybrid, and all-electric variants.

Hyundai Ioniq - Wikipedia

Granted, the electric version is in the 100 mile range category, but if they price it correctly, say about $25-27k pre-tax credit, it could still sell decently. If it's in the $30k+ range though, people might as well just buy a Chevy Bolt and get twice the range for roughly the same price or maybe a little more.

 

Group think. All the asian companies were thinking hydrogen for long range plug in for short range. They also thought that electronics could not compensate for consumer cells, and automotive batteries only recently became ready for long range bevs. Tesla thought differently. We are talking a 6 year cycle to create a design, and people were poo pooing tesla as having no chance to sell even 20,000 vehicles a year just 3 years ago.

hyundai's long range bev is due in 2018. They don't compete in the sports sedan segment so they won't be going head to head with the big dog, the tesla model 3.
Hyundai to launch all-electric SUV in 2018 with 200-mile range

 

If the number of potential customers for a luxury BEV are so small, why does Lexus feel a need to call BEVs out in this ad?

They make PHEVs for them.

Toyota is big hybrids now because they entered the market at the very beginning, and stuck with them even when hybrids didn't make sense for the majority of consumers.

Joining anytime acknowledges your competitors had the correct vision in the beginning.

And Toyota's mentality is that BEVs are only good for city cars with a 50 mile range.

The Ioniq was just mentioned, and will be the first car available as a hybrid, PHEV, and BEV. They are also working on a 200 mile BEV.

I haven't seen these ads, but the Genesis Motors brand is less than a year old, and I'm guessing these ads are more about letting potential customers know they have another choice in luxury car brands.

The Genesis car first showed up in 2008 as a Hyundai, and the second generation came out in 2013. So the new Genesis Motors company's car is currently middle age. At the time of its development, Tesla wasn't the big player is now, so Hyundai kept the design to the ICE RWD that is the stable of the luxury brands. There are 2 more cars, one a sports coupe, and 2 SUVs coming to the brand. If those platforms are used in a plug in, I would expect a plug in version in the Genesis model.

Hyundai's next FCEV model is planned for 2018. Perhaps it will have a Genesis sibling, but with a limited physical market, a plug in model will likely be first.

 

My family just bought its third Prius hybrid. Based on our experience with the first and then the second (both 40k and 100k+ still in the family), they make sense for us. Not for everyone. Of course.

Taking 10 minutes to gas up (and generally at my age go to the bathroom) is hardly not available. Taking 2 hours to get a 100-200 mile charge is. I plan ahead (I know where my next trip is liable to be.) and generally have 3/4 of a tank in the car or 400++ miles. Many gas stations generally located everywhere have 6-12 pumps, how many chargers are similarly available and in what quantity? Not on my trip routes and I've researched them. I can't recall the last time I had to wait for a pump and I have driven in most of the states. Has happened but not enough to enter my consciousness. Can't recall the last time I've driven more than 5 miles off my planned route to get a refill 400 miles of range.

Now I should caveat those statements. There can be gas shortages (pipeline breaks, OPEC even/odd games) but also there are thousands in NC without power today from a hurricane that merely brushed the coast over a week ago hundreds of miles away. They couldn't charge their cars anywhere in their area. Or gas up as electric power powers the gas pumps. So yes, stuff does happen.

Now if the S was available at the price I am willing to pay, I'd buy it tomorrow. Or the X. (Not the iRex, too small. I need 5 people space even in my economical car.) But spending 2 to 4 times what a vehicle costs me to have it be used 10% of the time makes no sense. The difference has been invested to appreciate, not depreciate like any expensive car does.

BTW, I should mention that we have just finished replacing all often-used house lighting in the house with LEDs (Have you seen the LED replacements for 4' florescents? Costco now has them on sale.). And we recycle religiously. So we are at least a bit green tinged.

I can't justify the plug-in Prius because I'd resent the charger installation costs for its meager miles on electric. Haven't ever seen a hydrogen fueling station.

I think we can all come up with arguments for why our choices are the right choices for us. I'm glad you are pleased with your choice.

 

That's fine. No one is calling up the jack booted BEV thugs to take away your ICE car. A BEV won't work for everyone, but it can work for many. Don't fall into the trap of a BEV not working for you meaning that they won't work for anybody.

It will take some time before the 200+ mile BEVs can take trips like a Tesla, and Tesla is still filling in spots on the Supercharger network. So a BEV only works as a second car for many, but many households already have two or more ICE cars. For many others, there are PHEVs.

I suspect you likely wouldn't buy a Lexus over a Toyota. Toyota's anti- plug in ads are coming from Lexus, and that's because they are currently losing sales of their $80K and up models to Tesla. So are other luxury brands, but their answer to the threat of Tesla is to start offering compelling plug ins.

You don't need to install a level 2 charger for the Prime. It will take 5 to 6 hours to charge from a basic, 15 amp outlet. But then the 4 seats would likely be a hindrance for you.

Haven't seen a hydrogen station either, but Toyota needs them for their backing of FCEVs to succeed.

No one is being forced to buy a plug in, so there is no issue there. The topic of this thread is about Lexus using misleading statements about plug ins in their advertising.[/quote]

 

You are confused by the Genesis branding. Hyundai sold a model called Genesis. These were not intended to represent the new high end luxury market. Hyundai has gone ahead and opened a high end luxtury brand called Genesis. Genisis is a brand not a model.

 

The Ioniq has nothing on the new Gen IV. It's already outdated looking.

 

That is a subjective call. While that is true for some, that is not the same thing as saying 100% of cars on the road will be EVs.
For me personally, any car that uses gasoline is a car that is more damaging to our environment, national fiscal health, the health of people, especially kids and those living near highways is a "lesser" car.
But I also acknowledge that for some people, and some jobs, a plugin vehicles don't work well. I don't see EVs ever taking 100% market share.
So once again, who has supported the idea EVs will take over 100% of the market?

 

I'd call it a more main-stream look than outdated. The Gen IV might be too polar design-wise for the general consumer.

 

Genius pictured has been out for years and is very popular with racing and drifting crowd. It's actually a nice car. But this has nothing to do with the new Genisis brand. The new brand was launched this month. They are running lots of commercials.

 

You need to see it in person. It's nice but boring and looks like a Honda Insight.

 

Good thing I sat in both at the OC auto show a few weeks ago to give me first-hand experience. You might call the design boring, but I'd call it conservative, which is more mainstream in the industry. I've heard a lot of people (non PC members) say that they feel the new Prius weird looking in it's futuristic attempt of a design. Again, these are opinions from traditional non-hybrid owners that I've talked to.

 

Glad you got to see it in person and glad you like it. My taste prefer the Gen IV. Plus it's a proven drive train.

 

you could look at it as a positive. gas cars are not always ready to go. sometimes, you need to find a fueling station. electric cars are already to go if you charge every night at home, and don't drive further than the range. my pip is already to go, because always leave with a full charge, and a tank lasts a few months.

 

If you remember to plug in........

What is you lived through the recent hurricanes on the east coats, with days without power? What does one do without power to charge their EV? These are the things one with an EV must think about as it is far from perfect.

 

Everyone remembers to plug in. That's not a thing to forget anymore than "forgetting to get gas" and running out on the side of the road.

Unless you have a rural East Asian style gas station around you where they scoop the petrol up with an old coffee can into a 2L inverted pop bottle with the bottom cut out which just gravity flows into your tank, your gas station will not work either. Some stations may have a generator but then you're in line for a few hours. With the EV you find a plug, you plug it in.