Toyota signing on to lawsuit opposing emission standards - ouch!

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by John Buddy, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Somebody has to be serious.
    The Semi launched in 2017.
    How many are on the road right now?
     
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Yeah and 20 years ago people made fun of Jeff Bezos because he sold used books online and never once made a profit. As in success isn't a right now results kinda thing... True success is how you scale over time, which is why the used book guy is #1 richest person in the world and has more power than most nations now.

    And granted, we don't need more Bezos. What we do need is an understanding of what happens when manufacturing and distribution successfully scales in ways that disrupt the markets.

    When it comes to the future of work trucks, Tesla Model 3 destroyed growth at scale for all the rest of the major luxury car makers. Likewise, the Electric prototype of the Tesla Class 8 Semi Truck that begins shipping off the assembly line in 2020, they've already robbed huge amounts of long term investment financing from the rest of the long-haul semi truck manufacturing industry. Would it be any surprise if the upcoming Tesla Truck announcement will aim for going after whoever has the coolest truck on the job site? And then scale that up?

    But go ahead... Act like nothing is going to change if you want... This Tesla truck scheme is gonna be like the "powering your house with Prius" story of the old days, but a 1000 times more powerful when it comes to what's possible.
     
    #42 PriusCamper, Nov 4, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  3. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Twenty years ago I had been an Amazon customer for several years since I read a lot and they were a good way to get books.
    Back then nobody knew who Jeff WAS and Priuses were not being sold here in America.

    This is why people don't like to be around EVangelists and vegans.

    If you go back and actually read my second post in this thread I don't think that "acting like nothing is going to change" is an accurate description of my comments.
    Folksy Anecdote:
    I went to a restaurant recently and asked an indifferent millennial who was trying to rush me through my order if they had any vegan options.
    After rattling off a few items I asked for an egg white vegetable omelette.
    She looked horrified...like I'd ordered Foie gras with veal-extra rare and actually not-quite-yelled "THAT'S NOT VEGAN!"
    It was the most animated I'd seen her while I was in the diner, and rather than explain to somebody one third my age who was already struggling with dietary issues why I eat mostly Vegan, I cancelled my order and left.

    Getting back to trucks.
    People in the construction trades are the most pragmatic of consumers, and so they're not going to be early adopters.
    If you look at their tools, you'll learn that they buy good stuff which is to say they buy expensive stuff.....but it has to be PROVEN good stuff.
    Tesla Batteries Investigated for Possible Defects - The New York Times
    Pickup trucks that people in the trades buy also are generally much more expensive than sedans - as I also pointed out earlier.
    They ALSO tend to be heavy duty trucks with towing packages, and off-road capability since not all construction sites are paved and some places in the US get more than a few inches of rain in a year.
    EV trucks will be WELL suited in this role, but you have to get to "proven."
    If Tesla follows the pattern, their first truck will be very late, very expensive, plagued with build quality issues, and will probably look like the love child of a Dodge Ram pickup and a Prius G4.

    Elon Musk his own self said that the Tesla Truck will not look out of place in the set of the sci-fi Blade Runner franchise, hinting at his company's focus on show....versus go.
    So....
    It might be a few years before you see them replacing Fords and Chevys on construction sites. ;)

    This reminds me.
    Edmund Morris has a new book out on Edison.
    I need to log into Amazon.....;)
     
    #43 ETC(SS), Nov 4, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  4. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    You claimed the Tesla truck design is still just on a napkin and then when you find out it's not you go on and on in random ways about how people offend you, then speculate on what the needs of people in the construction trade are... This discussion is nonsense.
     
  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Concur.
    As far as the original subject is concerned....it's fairly irrelevant.
    I'm thinking that the California is allowed to set their own emissions standards.
    This 'state right' has been upheld by the 9th Circus, IIRC and even though they're (probably) the most overturned federal court by a WIIIIDE margin, I'm thinking that even the present SCOTUS isn't going to rule against them broadly.

    This is all just click-bait.
    By the time this comes to a head there will probably be a different administration in place, and automakers are even more pragmatic than construction workers.
    Toyota isn't going get caught in the flip when the rules change and so they're going to make sure that they're 50-state compliant with any new model that they design, and those designs have a lead-time measured in YEARS.
    That they signed on to the lawsuit surprises me not in the least because anybody who has traveled much already knows that they sell a heckuva lot more trucks, SUVs, and crossovers than they do cars.

    They're just hedging their bets, and I do not blame them in the least.

    Their North Star is profitability - something that they are legally bound to defend for their investors...most of which do not drive Priuses.
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    I could visit the local Toyota dealer but I know they have nothing to replace our:
    • 2014 BMW i3-REx
    • 2019 Standard Range Plus Tesla Model 3
    No need to waste theirs or my time.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    If you guys wanna keep it in here, keep politics out or one of us will have to move it to FHoPol.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    <popcorn>:cool:
     
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    I'm out

    If somebody wants to comment on the Golden State's emissions standards and/or Toyota of North America's objections thereto in an apolitical way, then I will listen attentively and try to participate constructively.

    Here perhaps is a noteworthy article for the EVangelists.
    The article even makes a passing reference to Yota's stance on MPG standards and PC.

    I personally think that Electreck is a little sun-dazzled and they're confusing local demand for national demand but the article is interesting nonetheless.


    Toyota Prius Prime is scarce at dealerships, leaving demand for its plug-in on the table - Electrek

    Electrek’s Take
    Toyota doesn’t make an EV. There’s a reason that Teslas are more prevalent in key markets. Also, Toyota is on the wrong side of the battle for higher MPG standards and it continues to push “electrified” vehicles, meaning mostly hybrids.

    We’re hoping that the Japanese automaker comes around to battery-electrics. However, assuming that it doesn’t, Toyota would make a necessary step forward by fully committing to the plug-in hybrids that it does offer. The combined customer base of the five-seat Prius Prime and RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid could displace a lot of gas-powered miles with zero-emission electric miles.

    When all those new plug-in hybrid drivers get a tiny taste of EV driving, then it’s only a matter of time before they start clamoring for a legit EV from Toyota. The company might not listen to EV advocates, but they just might respond to their loyal customers.
     
    #49 ETC(SS), Nov 5, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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