Toyota still bullish on fuel cells

Thanks. The only new bit I saw was here

That means a 5 kg tank (but toyota isn't really saying) for 310 miles EPA which toyota has said, so about 62 mpge. This is not very different then the 60 mpge clarity. It is around double pure gasoline cars of its size (mazda 3 gets 33 mpg, corola eco 35 mpg, many are around 30). I think the real problem though if hydrogen is $6/kg, and I think this is a good estimate by toyota are the phevs. The prius phv gets 50 mpg and 10 miles of electric range. The volt gets 37 mpg and 38 miles of electric range.

Perhaps to get away from the idea of cheaper to fuel, when hydrogen likely will not be, hyundai is including the price of hydrogen in its lease rate
Green Car Congress: Hyundai to offer Tucson Fuel Cell vehicle to LA-area retail customers in spring 2014; Honda, Toyota show latest FCV concepts targeting 2015 launch

 

Honda and Mercedes already do this with the FCEV they lease in California. I believe it has more to do with the fact that the regulations for allowing a station to charge for hydrogen haven't been passed yet. That is the hydrogen is essentially free to the consumer because the station can't legally charge for it per kilogram at the pump until the standards board lays out those standards.

I admit that this data might be out of date, and it has been addressed.

 

My point was many people think the fuel cell drives the car directly. No. It still has a battery on board in order to provide rapid changes in demand. (And by the way, modern fuel cells start making electricity immediately & only take 1 minute to reach full power..... slightly longer when it's cold. The guy saying fuel cells need a 20-mile-range battery is using old information.)

 

Absolutely honda and merecedes incude the fuel in the lease price, and both companies lose a great deal on each vehicle leased. But it doesn't matter when the numbers are so small that its just an R&D test.

California's struggling 'hydrogen highway' plan gets new life -- and drivers will pay - San Jose Mercury News

But hyundai and toyota both have said these are production vehicles that they expect to make money on eventually. If CARB gets its 160,000 fcv in 2025, and toyota is right in its prediction of $6/kg (probably subsidized at first its $12/kg in europe subsidised but it should be cheaper to produce in california) then we are talking over $200M/yr for the fuel. Someone will have to pay for it. Since CARB and governor schwartzenager in 2004 were predicting 100,000 fcv by 2010 with the passage of the hydrogen highway, you would think they will sometime soon figure out how to sell the fuel, if they haven't done it yet. My guess is no one for the fuel cell lobby or CARB wanted a price out there because it would ruin part of their story, but with passage of this latest hydrogen highway bill which will likely quickly raise fcv from the hundreds to the thousands, they need to actually figure out who is going to subsidize the fuel, by how much, and how to charge. If there are not prices at hydrogen stations by 2016, some of the groups that help pass the $200M funding, will start to bauk, as stations will start closing again.