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Featured Toyota to give royalty-free access to hybrid-vehicle patents

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by cwerdna, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    This is kinda off-topic, and heady stuff, but anyway: would if help or hinder Toyota, if they made the "Repair Manual" publicly available? Either free, or for a one-time token charge, say $50.
     
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It is, but Japan has neither, so it comes down to cost.
     
  3. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Lets take this to another thread.
     
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  4. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    The european-ubitiquous Renault Clio is getting a full-hybrid option.
    Features a 1.6 litre Atkinson, and a clutchless transaxle (4 ratios?).



    It means Yaris HSD will finally get competition here, and Renault didn't use Toyota patents, AFAIK.
    I guess, against many bets, there is a market for these electric-tech-gasoline cars after all. And with a lot of savings in fuel consumption...
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    When fuel prices are high, there is a market for hybrids. That's why nearly everybody has been investing in them, and that is why Toyota opening up their patents now is too late. It is of benefit to few companies.

    Note that the Clio will also have a PHEV version.
    All-new E-TECH hybrid Renault Clio - Groupe Renault
     
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  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    . . . . . . just when one may have assumed we'd beat the OP to death
    ;)
    .
     
  7. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    That is your feeling. Just have a look at the automarket offers, you made be surprised...
    ...very few HVs have been lauched...
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Having the technology and selling it are two different things.

    Toyota, GM, Ford, Nissan, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Renault are all companies that have a full hybrid system that I know of off the top of my head. They don't all offer a hybrid in every market, and some of them only sell them with a plug, but that is a sizeable portion of the industry that possesses the technology already. So Toyota opening up their patents will have little impact on the availability hybrids.

    I am unfamiliar with the car companies in India and China, so perhaps it will help their, but that isn't going to have much impact for European and American markets.
     
  9. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Adding a plug to a ICE vehicle makes a PHEV, lowering Fuel Consumption just because an outer source comes in.
    BMW, Mercedes and Volvo have been selling PHEVs which if not plugged are more thirsty than a simpler (but wise engineered) similar HV.
    And PHEVs are a niche, HV can (and increasingly will) replace all current ICEs.

    The very few companies you listed that have hybrids are: Ford (only Fusion), Nissan (only Note in JP), Honda (only Insight), Hyundai/Kia (only Ioniq and Niro)...leaving all others to ICEs and PHEVs.
     
  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I belive this is a toyota talking point but is not accurate in the US outside california where some take the phevs (mostly prius phv/prime) with intent for incentives. We do have the data. I have no idea if its a problem in european nations. Europe appears to be the only growth area for non plug-in hybrids. Part of this is swapping from diesels. We have data from 2018.
    Europe’s Hybrid and EV Car Market | LMC AUTOMOTIVE
    2018 (Full Year) Europe: Electric and Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales per EU and EFTA Country - Car Sales Statistics
    They don't break it out but I'll do the math on hybrids

    40% growth of non-plug in hybrids yoy 2018 compared to 2017 in a flat market to 423,442 or 2.7% of EU & EFTU countries
    Other numbers are in the document
    Total plug ins grew 33% to 2.5% market share which is made up by
    19% phevs growth to 1.2% market share
    48% bev growth to 1.3% market share growing just past phev but the lead should get bigger next year.

    I expect full hybrids to stay important in the European and Japanese markets, but the Japanese market is shrinking. I expect plug-in sales to grow rapidly in europe starting in 2020 as tesla can ship full demand and the germans will have better plug-ins. The mild 48V electrification will also grow rapidly possibly squeezing out full non plug-in as battery costs drop and infrastructure is built.

    Add Chevy (malibu) but that doesn't sell all that well and may only be north america. I expect every company that wants a hybrid in europe already has done the R&D. China and India are the biggest chance for hybrid growth, but I am not sure whether those companies will take advantage of Toyota's patents.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I know. My point isn't that they all sell hybrids, but that they have hybrid technology. If Toyota wanted to spur hybrid(without a plug) growth through opening up their patents, they are too late because most of the major manufacturers already have their own technology if they need a full hybrid for a market. Without a plug, they are likely to choose a mild hybrid system because of the cost.

    I stated here multiple times that the line lines between ICE and hybrid will continue blurring to the point that the traditional ICE car will be the oddity. Plug in cars are being adopted at a faster rate than hybrids though. Part of that is because of the performance boost that a hybrid doesn't have, which is why companies are opting to only offer a full hybrid with a plug.

    I listed over a dozen car corporations that cover the majority of the brands available globally.
    Ford should have the Escape and Explorer hybrids out to dealers by the end of the year. The Escape with have a PHEV option, and the Aviator will too. A hybrid F150 will follow next year. Not sure of when, but the Mustang and Bronco will also have a hybrid option.
    Hyundai/Kai also have the Sonata and Optima in hybrid and PHEV forms.
    Honda has the Accord, Jazz, and some Acuras with their AWD hybrid system, if counting non-plug ins.
    FCA has a PHEV minivan and mild hybrid truck here. Don't know what they are doing elsewhere.
    Peugeot has PHEVs, so can make a full hybrid if they felt the need.
    Tata has a hybrid SUV coming out, so started working on it before Toyota's announcement.
     
  12. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Very few? Just take a look at the PHEVs and non-plugin hybrids at June 2018 Hybrid Cars Sales Dashboard. This is just the US market and unfortunately, for some reason, that site has stopped releasing new "dashboards".

    The above doesn't include discontinued HEVs (e.g. Escape Hybrid, Altima Hybrid, a whole bunch of GM mild hybrids, GM's two-mode hybrids, two-mode hybrids from BMW and Chrysler).