Toyota unveils new, improved Prius PHV with best battery yet

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Tideland Prius, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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  2. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    Some approx. US math.

    "that can travel almost double the distance of conventional models using just electricity to more than 60 kilometers."
    60km=37 miles stated range.

    "The car can run a distance of around 1,000 km a year with electricity derived from the solar panels"
    For the solar yearly range 1000km=621 miles.

    But in the AP article.
    "The EV cruise range is 35 kilometers, or long enough for about half of American commuters. That rises to about 80 percent for people who can plug in during work, according to Toyota."
    Range is given as 35 km=22 miles.
    Toyota gets bullish on plug-in hybrids with new Prius Prime:The Asahi Shimbun

    big diff between 37 and 22. More than can be explain by the diff. in epa milage tests.
    If it is 37 you just bought one right?
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I think Toyota is a bit conservative with the 22 mile range. It's easy to just say "twice the range!". The gain in the JC-08 test is 2.25. If we apply that factor to our EPA-rated 11 miles for the PiP, that's 24.75 miles (I don't know if the EPA rounds up or truncates).

    Also, the JC-08 test is waaaay more optimistic than the EPA and most people in the US won't get 37 miles because of our higher speeds and heavier A/C or heater use.

    Just to show you what I mean, the Gen 4 is rated at 52mpg combined. The Japanese JC-08 test rates the Prius at 37km/L or 87mpg.
     
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  4. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    I've said it before, and I'll say it again; roof-mounted solar charging is a gimmick. It doesn't make sense to lug around the extra weight and expense for such a low amount of extra energy. Based on the figures above, the solar option might be a 50 watt panel (assuming the car lives outside and is unshaded), which is tiny. Since the car is a plug-in, it generally assumes that it will live in a garage, shaded from the sun.

    The roof of the car is among the worst places to add weight, and the angle isn't great for capturing solar energy. If people want their energy to come from solar, they should mount the panels to their home roof, or just pay extra on the utility bill for energy derived from solar.

    All that said, this article supports what some have argued (myself included), that if the battery capacity is doubled, and the efficiency of the electronics improved, the car could go nearly 40 miles on EV alone, under ideal driving conditions.
     
    #4 Redpoint5, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There is a discussion about the differences in range on the two tests here: Forbes Article mentions 37 mile range?! | PriusChat

    Remember, the 11 miles of EV range on the EPA test isn't pure EV. Some gasoline is used, which means the car used more energy than the battery holds alone.
     
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I wish they could give us an outlet to plug in our own solar energy from the garage roof or something. Acutally I'd prefer wireless over a plug, but gimme a way.
     
  7. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    The most efficient solar setup is grid-tied (connected to utility power) and net-metered (meter spins forward when using more electricity than can be produced, and spins backwards when producing an excess). In this way, you are essentially plugging your car into the solar panels without needing any special plugs.

    If people were truly interested in "green" energy, they would take the money they would have spent on the solar roof option, and invest it into either their own renewable energy, or a utility sponsored project. It would accomplish more for the dollar than strapping a power plant (solar panels) to the roof of the car.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    things are different in japan, that's why it's not available here.

    but the key sentence i took away was, 'we will keep the price as low as we can in the hopes that as wide a range of people as possible will use the car'.
     
    #8 bisco, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  9. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    This will inevitably result in some people complaining that the interior isn't as luxurious as a BMW 3 series, or some other vehicle. You can't please everyone...
     
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    According to the new/updated Prius PHV page on toyota.jp, the solar panel is rated at a peak 180W.

    Some new information on the non-US bound solar roof | PriusChat
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    • if you can manage an average of 2 miles a day, that's nothing to sneeze at, providing the cost of the panels is not more than $200.00
     
  12. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    It will make a small daily contribution for a car parked in the sun all day prior to the commute home. Every bit helps I suppose. Solar Panels have improved in efficiency over the last few years - as Solar Impulse (the around the world solar plane), plus the Solar Challenge (solar powered car race from north to south in Australia) - demonstrate, getting quicker, more powerful, lighter and smaller. It may not be particularly relevant now, but in the future, maybe moreso.
     
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  13. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    I sneeze at it all day, every day. :X3: If my commute were only 2 miles a day, I would bicycle, roller blade, skate board, or moon walk that distance rather than drive. Even if I was lame, for the $0.04 it costs in electricity for me to travel those 2 miles, it would take 5000 days to make up the $200 assumed cost, which is probably a very low-ball figure for what Toyota will charge for the option.

    That doesn't account for all of the sun damage that will be done to a car that is purposely parked to soak it up. Yellowing headlights, fading paint, interior plastic degradation...

    It's a gimmick; nothing more.
     
    #13 Redpoint5, Jun 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
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  14. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    WOW - I wish I could get electricity that cheap. About 40c/kw hr here, which makes the computation much different. There is another post at the moment discussing the same issue - and they're assuming (in Netherlands) that it would generate about 1kw hr per day, so 40 cents. Here in the sub-tropics, I'd hope for better efficiency than the Netherlands. I guess we'll find out when the car comes out and someone puts it to the test.

    Conjecture is oftentimes misleading. Personally, I'd be surprised if $200 is anywhere near what TOYOTA charges - but they'll probably pack it in with other features, and it might be difficult to extract the real value. When Prius & the hybrid concept was first released, we all looked on sceptically, now, LeMans is the latest showcase of where it's heading.
     
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  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It might be worse where you are at. The panels loss efficiency when they get hot.

    The solar kit includes a NiMH battery pack; maybe the size of the one in the hybrid. That is what gets charged up while parked. I expect the package to be at least a $1000, but likely more.
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's a pretty cool feature, and one that a lot of people have asked for, and hopefully will commit to, even if it isn't cost effective.
     
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  17. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I actually do have that kind of commute which is why I have a plug-in. My hybrids were always in the warm-up cycle and got crappy fuel economy. Anyway, I do walk or bike when either I have the time or the weather is good. It's the time factor that's more important to me than saving 5 or 6 cents (.7kwh).
     
  18. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    A coworker just bought a new Charger 5.7L V8 and commutes about 3/4 mile.Sometimes he drives around the block a couple times because, as he says, it seems like his drive is too short. I'll walk that distance just going from one building to another at work.

    Anyhow, my 7 mile (one way) commute takes 15 minutes by car, or 25 minutes by bicycle. I was starting to ride again, but got frustrated with frequent flat tires, shifting problems, and a bike geometry that isn't right for me. The last straw was a blowout during a high speed turn off of a busy road. In motorcycle terms, I did a "tank slapper", although I don't know what bicyclists call it (tube slapper?).

    One advantage I have is a shower at work. No way can I ride 7 miles without being drenched with sweat.
     
  19. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Toyota estimates 10 percent more fuel economy. Was regen braking a gimic? That was like 20 percent more fuel economy back then...

    And imagine parking out doors at work or apartment complex. Your car is will give u free miles. Imagine living in the city with street parking. Over the weekend the car can be fully charged!
     
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