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Featured Toyota's New Bet on Hydrogen

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Prodigyplace, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Hydrogen makes a lot more sense with semi trucks than with cars.
    I don't know that Toyota ever said they were moving away from hydrogen. They are just, finally, moving towards electrics.
     
  3. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Makes more sense than passenger cars. Heavy trucks have much less stop times, as a service requirement fits best in H2, a quick refill and longer range is maybe easier than electric.
     
  4. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Hydrogen makes much more sense, to start and to test with for any kind of fleet vehicle.
    You can build a small number of refueling stations that get lots of daily use.
    And all the vehicles, cars or trucks, mostly start and end their day at the station

    Mike
     
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    makes more sense.
     
  6. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    ????

    Sometimes I wonder,

    I guess if the semi is next to the station moving trailers around a lot but OTR from Cali to IL? I think not
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Not all trucks are long distance haulers.
    ex. Milk trucks stay local going between farms and the dairy.
     
    #7 Trollbait, Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would love if ups and fedex used them around here, and got rid of their stinking noisy diesels.
     
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  9. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Actually they are planning on testing moving cargo from the port to destinations within LA.
     
  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Port of LA is a no diesel zone. lng makes a lot more sense there than 10,000 psi hydrogen, so why this proof of concept? State of california is probably highly subsidizing the hydrogen, and they already have the fuel cells from the mirai. Why not use this as a test vehicle? It makes sense as a proof of concept even though it makes no sense as a vehicle that will sell in the next decade.

    What about 2030? That is what this is targeting.
     
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    usually they say "in just 10 more years"
    i guess 2027 is just too much of a stretch to be believed anymore. Wonder how their 200+ mile non-micro sized ev is coming along ....
    .
     
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  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota also has had FCEV buses running in spots for years now. A truck isn't much of a leap in difference.
     
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Japan doesn't have all that cheap hydro power.

    I see Tesla is working on a semi truck. A BEV bus has more space for batteries though, and it isn't expected to haul up to 54k pounds of mass around.Propane and natural gas are the easy and cheap way of reducing truck and bus emissions. Make them hybrid, and they'll do better.
     
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  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Here on Prius Chat someone (apparently erroneously) said due to the Mirai recalls Toyota was giving up on Mirai in CA. That's why there is some confusion among us. As Mark Twain once said. rumors....
     
  16. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  17. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Actually a truck is a leap ;-) Busses normally have fixed routes, with single spot refueling. you just need to make the hydrogen tank to worst case weather on the route, and supply enough maintenance to a depot. Trucks move in flexible routes depending on load, thus will require much more complicated refueling and maintenance. So far fuel cell busses are a fail as far as costs. When you include maintenance and fuel, cng or lng busses are much less expensive, and mainly solve the city pollution problem.

    Still its an easy retrofit from the bus system to a truck, and it gets toyota pr. I don't think its good pr though as its a square peg in a round hole.

    IMHO they would get more milelage (pun intended) out of really coming out with a super great phev clean diesel truck based on part of the prime. If they could do it for the tacoma or tundra with a gasoline or diesel engine it could pay dividends.

    This fuel cell push just makes them seem like they don't understand the infrastructure and cost problems. I don't expect that tesla model 3 will make it out this year in anything but token quantities, but it should be able to outsell all the mirai world wide, just in a limited california release before they really get the factory going on it next year. Can you imagine toyota's mirai pitch then? Well sure it costs more, is slower, harder to fuel, doesn't handle as well, has less pasanger and cargo space, but it can go 312 miles on a tank, while the base tesla can "only" go 215 miles before needing a super charging. Sure the tesla has nationwide infrastucture for charging (in us and china) but the mirai is better because it might get to 100 stations sometime in the future, if only you tax payers would help out a lot more. I mean there already are 34 hydrogen stations in the US, sure some are private, and many won't fill a 10,000 psi tank, but you know gives us more money to do this. Trust us its better.
    Alternative Fuels Data Center: Hydrogen Fueling Station Locations
     
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  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Canada being several times larger than japan - of course they'd have more cheep hydro power. But they DO have cheep hydro power as The Fuji river is quite fast flowing and fills several stations;
    Fuji River - Wikipedia
    .
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I imagine the electric demand with in Japan drives the price beyond cheap. Of course other energy sources there aren't cheap either.
     
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Well from all articles, in Japan - the Mirai fool cell car is supposed to run on hydrogen reformed via Australian coal. It'll look clean over there in Japan, at least. Maybe the Ausie's don't mind being Japan's enviro-toilet .... for a price, of course.

    .
     
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